Loss of IgG antibodies

[heapsreal]

Yeah, EBV VCA IgG is negative while EBNA is off the chart high so I think I have reactivated EBV or some kind of low level chronic infection. Is it called abortive infection according to Dr Lerner? Or maybe I also have reactivated CMV, not sure. Last time (08/2021) it shows no reactivated CMV (IgM negative) but I guess it could have been reactivated due to high stress since that test.

I have been taking acyclovir 400mg-800mg/day and I noticed that even with just 400mg/day, I didn't have a low grade fever for a good 3-4 hours maybe. Is valacyclovir 500mg 2x a day a good dose or do you think I should go with 1g 2x a day? Thanks

Dosing of valtrex, if you can get 1000mg twice a day, I'd say go for it. But 500mg twice a day is fine.

 

[JohnK02]

I found PCR tests are a lot more useful than antibody tests as my body doesn't make antibodies properly. I had several doctors miss my EBV and HHV6 because they were just looking at antibody titers.

I have had documented,,PCR positive reactivations of both EBV and HHV6 over 9 years after immune system hits, like my COVID shots, dental surgery, cataract surgery, and cancer treatment.

Each time they go away with high dose and now, combined antivirals, and my doctors realize this happens. I also gave recurrent HSV2 that flares when I'm run down. I am on a maintenance program of 2x450mg valganciclovir and 2x400mg acyclovir to keep them at bay, then double up if anything flares and add famciclovir if it's not enough.

These articles show how various EBV antibody combinations are interpreted IN HEALTHY PEOPLE WiTH COMPETENT IMMUNE SYSTEMS, but if your immune system is less than competent, like mine, the antibody tests can give a doctor the false impression that the virus isn't active when it is.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC497621/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3782265/

https://www.researchgate.net/public...of_primary_EBV_infection_and_EBV_reactivation

I also strongly recommend testing immunoglobulins with subclasses, particularly IgG subclasses as well as other immune system testing if people have ongoing issues with viruses. I also get intravenous immunoglobulins to help me fight off infections. They have been critical to my recovery.

Thank you for the reply and for sharing the articles/your experience. When my doctor ordered the three part EBV panel, she said EBV EA wasn't available so I asked her for the PCR DNA Quant and it was negative. I read that it's possible to have reactivated EBV/active infection with a negative PCR, right?

When I saw that the PCR was negative, I was thinking I didn't have reactivated EBV so I didn't ask my doctor for Antivirals. My EBV VCA IgG was negative. That means I didn't seroconvert? Or maybe I had it but lost it, right? But my EBNA was 594 then it was over 600 (tested nine days later) so maybe that's a sign that EBV was active again?

I really want to get the EBV EA IgG. I'm so curious if I have reactivated EBV or CMV or hvv-6 or maybe chicken pox (VZV?). The only symptoms that make me think I have reactivated EBV are extreme fatigue and low grade fever but I think maybe it's just Long Covid and not due to EBV? I have tried short dose Prednisone 50mg (5-10 days), also tried Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs like aspirin, Tylenol, naproxen and none of them was able to help with the fever.

According to my doctor, I didn't have reactivated EBV or CMV. But if that's the case, then why acyclovir seems to help with my persistent low grade fever (had this symptom and extreme fatigue since 06/2020)? Could it be that Long Covid caused brain inflammation and acyclovir has some anti-inflammatory properties(?) but I can't find any info that says acyclovir having anti-inflammatory properties

 

[JohnK02]

Dosing of valtrex, if you can get 1000mg twice a day, I'd say go for it. But 500mg twice a day is fine.

Got it. Thanks!

 

[JohnK02]

I think that is correct. EBV also uses up resources through the immune system's efforts to fight it, depleting the body of nutrients like vitamin C and zinc, which lower immune function

Can EBV or any of the herpes viruses cause lymphopenia, low platelets, low EOS, low monocytes or low neutrophils? Or do you think it's Long Covid that's causing this? I also developed some eye floaters since I got sick. Can EBV or CMV cause eye floaters? When I was 13/14 (long time ago, way before Covid), I had sudden vertigo/dizziness that lasted for almost the entire summer. Maybe that was Mono? I read that both EBV and CMV can cause damage to the vestibular system but I didn't have a sore throat or fever at that time so maybe that was caused by CMV (Mono) and not EBV?

Sorry my thought process is so bad right now and I'm all over the place.

 

[chronicproblems]

Im starting to suspect that my CFS is connected to inabilty to produce antibodies. i have low t cells as well, some kind of severe and rare immune deficiency, ehcih went crazy with covid and ever since i have been goind down hill fast. Also have mold and Lyme problems, MCAS.

 

[chronicproblems]

Forgot to add, have you tested your T cells and Igg subclasses?

 

[JohnK02]

There is an interesting article about the disappearance of EBV IgG antibodies here. The article says that:

Hi Hip, is EBNA-1 the same as EBNA? My EBV ab profile just says EBNA, ab IgG.

 

[JohnK02]

As a rough guide, if your immune markers like neutrophils, lymphocytes etc comeback low, it's possible your immune system is tiring or immune exhaustion from a chronic infection or immune deficiency and be good to get more advanced immune testing done like immunoglubulins done as you might be a candidate for immunoglobulin therapy. If they are high it indicates a current ongoing infection your immune system is fighting.
I say a rough guide as you can have have some markers high and some low at the same time.

Hi heapsreal, I forgot to mention that back in April 2021, my electrophoresis showed elevated polyclonal gammopathy but it didn't show a value. The doctor didn't follow up on thet because she said "it's not monoclonal so you don't have Multiple Myeloma." I had two more globulins tests as part of the comprehensive metabolic panel and they came back normal then I got into an argument with my brother (felt like he was gaslighting me around 10/18/21), and when I went to the ER, my globulins was elevated.

It's kind of weird that My WBC with diff were almost always lowl/very low normal but yet I had too much gamma globulins.

As you had mentioned, polyclonal gammopathy means I'm still fighting an infection of some kind, right? I'm thinking EBV and remnants of COVID-19

I have found an internist and he seems to be very open minded so I'm hoping he will order immunology levels among other tests (for ANCA vasculitis). What other important blood tests should I ask for? Lymphocyte subset panel, NK cells, immunoglobulin levels. Igg4 for pancreatitis (my recent Fecal Elastase was just 100 (ref range 200+) so pancreas is damaged but I don't have severe pancreatic pain like most people with chronic pancreatitis experience

 

[JohnK02]

I also strongly recommend testing immunoglobulins with subclasses, particularly IgG subclasses as well as other immune system testing if people have ongoing issues with viruses. I also get intravenous immunoglobulins to help me fight off infections. They have been critical to my recovery.

Hi Learner1, what does IgG with subclass mean? I'm going to ask my GP who is in internal medicine to check my IGA, IgM and IgG immunoglobulins level on Feb 14th. I think I still have elevated polyclonal gammopathy. Would IVIG help if we already have too many gamma globulins?

 

[Hip]

Hi Hip, is EBNA-1 the same as EBNA? My EBV ab profile just says EBNA, ab IgG.

I think ENBA would cover all of EBNA-1, EBNA-2, EBNA-3, etc.

If you look at the table half way down this page, showing which viral proteins are made during EBV latency, you see that EBNA-1 is made in all 3 latency states, but EBNA-2 and EBNA-3 are only made in the EBV latency III state.

 

[heapsreal]

Hi heapsreal, I forgot to mention that back in April 2021, my electrophoresis showed elevated polyclonal gammopathy but it didn't show a value. The doctor didn't follow up on thet because she said "it's not monoclonal so you don't have Multiple Myeloma." I had two more globulins tests as part of the comprehensive metabolic panel and they came back normal then I got into an argument with my brother (felt like he was gaslighting me around 10/18/21), and when I went to the ER, my globulins was elevated.

It's kind of weird that My WBC with diff were almost always lowl/very low normal but yet I had too much gamma globulins.

As you had mentioned, polyclonal gammopathy means I'm still fighting an infection of some kind, right? I'm thinking EBV and remnants of COVID-19

I have found an internist and he seems to be very open minded so I'm hoping he will order immunology levels among other tests (for ANCA vasculitis). What other important blood tests should I ask for? Lymphocyte subset panel, NK cells, immunoglobulin levels. Igg4 for pancreatitis (my recent Fecal Elastase was just 100 (ref range 200+) so pancreas is damaged but I don't have severe pancreatic pain like most people with chronic pancreatitis experience

I've had alot of things tested but the tests I recall as abnormal, that I followed/keep track of were, initially total lymphocytes were high, this was 7 yrs after cfs onset. The first 7 yrs I didn't really get to see blood work as my dr would just say something was good or bad basically.

When I saw a descent cfs dr he would explain results and give me copies. So those total lymphocytes were high a few times over 6 months or so as well as my lymphocyte T subset cells. My total lymphocytes came down to normal in my next blood test after starting antivirals, so probably within 3 months. Lymphocyte sub sets have gone down over the Years on antivirals but not totally within normal range until the last couple of years.

The other immune test, which is on all full blood panels is my neutrophils. It was mostly low. Until a couple of years ago, I was getting blood work every 3 months. Again the last couple of years they have been in range. I think what's helped is antibiotics and then continually taking antibacterial herbs commonly used in lyme disease, has helped. No idea if I have lyme or some other bacterial infection but it's common in bacterial infections to have low neutrophils. Lyme testing in Australia is very debatable and probably because the govt refuse to acknowledge its existence, even though many Australians have sent blood overseas and tested positive. We have hundreds of poisonous snakes but supposedly no poisonous ticks etc???

My nk function testing I could only get done cause I was in a cfsme study that testing nk function every 6 months for 18months. It was very low every time it was tested. Nk cells are a sub type of lymphocyte. Out of curiosity I was able during this time, to get my dr to get me a lymphocyte function test. It's commonly done in children. I would have thought it would have been abnormal, but it came back normal. I'm not sure how accurate it was because the cfs study I was in did test cd8 lymphocyte function, although we didn't get individual results for this, the overall result of cfs people in the study was that cd8 function was low too, as well as nk function. Why I have doubts on the lymphocyte function test my dr was able to send me for. This was all around 2009/2010??

Also around 2007-2010 time frame I can recall I had a few tests dome on my igg, igm and iga subclasses. My igg was high, maybe also indicates my immune system is fighting something??

That's the immune tests that were abnormal for me. I did have more immune testing done but they were OK, I just can't recall everything that got tested.

The other thing that was low from when I started seeing the cfs dr, which was 7 yrs after my cfs onset in 2002 is my dhea levels and they continue to be below range. I supplement with 25mg a day.
My morning cortisol was low normal until last couple of years. Morning cortisol should be high normal. Now my levels are midrange.
The other hormone that has slowly tracked south is my testosterone. My free testosterone was always below the normal range but my total testosterone was ok but dropped below normal in about 2017. Started testosterone replacement then and it had made an impact on me, as well as the antivirals and antibacterial treatments. It's possible testosterone could have helped increase my low neutrophils as testosterone can help all blood cells both red blood cells and white blood cells.

Even though this is abit of a rant, that's me in a nutshell from 2002 until today.
Cheers.

 

[Violeta]

I don't know enough about mannose-binding lectin deficiency yet, but I did a search on twitter and one of the first responses was this:

"A recent study found some with #MEcfs show a deficiency in IgG3 antibodies or in Mannose-Binding Lectin (MBL), confirming a 2015 study & prior reports. A result of a specific type of immune activation? A subtle form of immune deficiency?"

https://x.com/aboutmecfs/status/1443293248726835203?s=20

I should have put this link first to explain why I added the link to the tweet about MBL.

Frequent IgG subclass and mannose binding lectin deficiency in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome​

This is a good study!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0198885915004656