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Looking for help with folate/folinic acid/methylfolate and multivitamin

Messages
22
Hello all,
I've been having some issues with folate/folinic acid and methylfolate. My folate is LOW, however, I cannot supplement without feeling anxiety - even at doses as low as 25mcg, I get an anxious feeling, vertigo and a feeling of dread - this happens with all folate/folinic acid and methylfolate. I cannot explain this - can someone help me out?

Also, seems like I unable to tolerate sublingual vitamins either - I did 1/4 of a sublingual mutlivitamin and felt wire and anxious.

Can anyone explain why this happens and if there is some sort of a solution? I need to raise my folate and I don't know how....
 

aaron_c

Senior Member
Messages
691
I was wondering more about symptoms of high histamine--and I'm not sure that food sensitivities are strongly related to histamine levels.

Tetrahydrofolate (THF) is required for the conversion of histidine to glutamate. Without enough THF there is extra histidine, some of which becomes extra histamine. So people who are folate deficient can have habitually high histamine and low glutamate, and can experience some uncomfortable symptoms when they bring their folates back to healthy levels.

When I asked about allergies, I was thinking about more classical allergies like the pruritus and hives mentioned in this list of symptoms from high histamine:

From foodsmatter.com
  • Pruritus (itching especially of the skin, eyes, ears, and nose)
  • Urticaria (hives) (sometimes diagnosed as “idiopathic urticaria”)
  • Tissue swelling (angioedema) especially of facial and oral tissues and sometimes the throat, the latter causing the feeling of “throat tightening” (sometimes diagnosed as “idiopathic angioedema”)
  • Hypotension (drop in blood pressure)
  • Tachycardia (increased pulse rate, “heart racing”)
  • Symptoms resembling an anxiety or panic attack
  • Chest pain
  • Nasal congestion and runny nose
  • Conjunctivitis (irritated, watery, reddened eyes)
  • Some types of headaches that differ from those of migraine
  • Fatigue, confusion, irritability
  • Very occasionally loss of consciousness usually lasting for only one or two seconds
  • Digestive tract upset, especially heartburn, "indigestion", and reflux
The symptoms you describe could be linked to extra glutamate, but of course they could be linked to a number of things. But if you don't have any symptoms of high histamine than I'm a bit stumped.

*Bump*
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
I cannot supplement without feeling anxiety - even at doses as low as 25mcg, I get an anxious feeling, vertigo and a feeling of dread - this happens with all folate/folinic acid and methylfolate. I cannot explain this - can someone help me out?
In my experience this is because folate induces B2, B6 and B12 deficiency. Obviously other B vitamins get depleted as well (esp B1 and B3) since they are all pieces of the same engine (see the link in my sig Citric Acid Cycle chart), so it would be best take all of them together in a low dose B complex. I must get my B complex from a compounding pharmacy since most of them have too high doses for me to tolerate. Alternatively you can buy one and spllit the capsule open and take just a small fraction.

My husband has low serum folate, but can't suplement with any form on its own either. I think this is because he has a fast CBS SNP which will always cause his serum folate to be low. For instance, in the last year I made him eat many vegetables daily, and after 10-11 months eating his vegetables daily his serum was the lowest we ever saw. I concluded he really needs B6 for his fast CBS SNP, but he can't take it on its own either because he gets symptoms of B2 deficiency. So now we both are taking all the Bs together in a low dose B complex.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
When I asked about allergies, I was thinking about more classical allergies like the pruritus and hives mentioned in this list of symptoms from high histamine:

From foodsmatter.com
The symptoms you describe could be linked to extra glutamate, but of course they could be linked to a number of things. But if you don't have any symptoms of high histamine than I'm a bit stumped.
All of this symptoms - histamine and glutamate are cleard by B6 in my personal experience. But even very low doses of B6 cause me serotonin syndrome (low B2) since I am +/+MAO-A. Even my husband who is -MAO-A gets a B2 deficiency from taking B6 on its own.
 

aaron_c

Senior Member
Messages
691
What can I ask for at the compounding pharmacy for a low dose B complex in terms of amounts? thank you so much!!!

You can do that yourself--just get a small jar and a bag of apple fiber (or another fiber that you tolerate). Then mix one pill of your chosen b-complex with however much fiber you want to dilute it with, and mix them up. Then instead of taking a pill of b-complex, take 1/8 of a teaspoon (or whatever) of your mixture, and increase the dose as needed.

This is too much for many people, but I actually make my own b complex with individual ingredients from purebulk.com. This allows you to leave one or more ingredients out and potentially see which ones are responsible for the side effects you don't like.

Hopefully @Gondwanaland will have a good idea of what dose you might start at.
 
Messages
22
Thank you so much Aaron_c - do you happen to know of any B complexes that leave out the folate/methylfolate/folinic acid?
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
What can I ask for at the compounding pharmacy for a low dose B complex in terms of amounts? thank you so much!!!
This is very individual, but one a dr prescribed me the following to take divided in two doses at breakfast and lunch (it was her standard Bcomplex formula for all her patients):
Vit B1 2.90mg
Vit B2 2.90mg
Vit B3 niacinamide 2.90mg
Vit B5 2.90mg
Vit B6 2.90mg
Vit B7 0.02mg
Folic acid 0.04mg
PABA 1.37mg
Inositol 2.90 mg
Choline Bitartrate 3.17 mg
Vit MB12 0.04mg
Vit B15 2.90mg

I never ordered it because she also added curcumin to the formula which I don't tolerate (oxalates), so can't tell you how I reacted to it.

Later I bought Swanson's activated B complex which contains 25 mg of each vitamin in co-enzymated form, and I would open the capsule and take a small fraction from it. It didn't work for me because it made my brain foggy.

Presently I try to keep this approach in mind regarding dosages, but I avoid taking one vitamin without the others.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,077
Thanks! Interesting - so low B2 causes serotonin syndrome? Why is that?
WIth B6 supplementation (wich synthesizes serotonin) you need B2 for serotonin breakdown. The B vitamins are involved in every neurotransmitter and hormone pathway...