Long Covid, Short Magnesium (Chambers, 2022)

[Consul]

Abstract

Long Covid, now also reported in children, has become increasingly alarming. Perhaps a third of those who develop MIS-C go on to experience Long Covid. Etiology is elusive. The role of vitamin D in bone and immune health has been recognized but magnesium deficiency has escaped attention. A physiologic and biochemical argument for its culpability in Long Covid as well Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Epstein Barr Virus, and Cytomegalovirus is discussed.

The study: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=117413

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

magnesium deficiency has escaped attention

I've long been a tireless and probably tedious proponent of magnesium supplementation, since it was what pulled me out of being completely bedbound and pretty much vegetative. I used a dosing schedule that it took me a a while to craft, but once I found that very small amounts on a very frequent dosing schedule worked where larger doses did absolutely nothing, it was sort of gradual magic, with things slowly improving.

Thanks for posting this @Consul ....

 

[PatientlyWaiting]

What time of magnesium? I’m taking glycinate …

 

[godlovesatrier]

It's vital. I take magnesium ascorbate. Make my own 1g capsules. It's cheap and you get vitamin c and magnesium. Works excellently.

Joshua research much like @YippeeKi YOW !! Experiments found out that dosing small amounts regularly is superior to dosing once a day. To be honest I'd say that applies to almost everything. As I dose almost everything 3 x a day unless it's stimulatory.

So I take 1g mag ascorbate 3 x a day. That's about 100mg magnesium + 850mg vitamin c 3 x a day. I do have glycinate as well but the ascorbate seems to work well good for those who have zero tolerance of ascorbic acid and can't afford to buy or make liposomal vitamin c.

 

[BrightCandle]

I don't seem to respond badly to Magnesium Citrate thankfully so I use that. I have tried Glyucinate and others before but I don't seem to get any benefits compared to the much cheaper Citrate. I take it in 3x a day and then I take a double dose before bed to help me sleep. I take a lot of magnesium in, my hair sample despite this still showed I was very short on it.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I take a lot of magnesium in, my hair sample despite this still showed I was very short on it.

Hair samples are effectively a rear-view mirror, since the mineral content of your hair is established at the time it grew, not in current time lines, so probably not to worry.

Magnesium is critical to so many functions of so many systems in your body that, aside from its notorious diarrhetic effects, it's virtually impossible to overdose on it unless you really, really try. I use glycinate because I can pump in a lot of mag without the unpleasant bowel effects. And I dose it, as @godlovesatrier has noted, in very small amounts at pretty frequent intervals.

Magnesium ascorbate sounds interesting, and I think it's the only form I didnt try whe I was attempting to deal with some really unpleasant symptoms of a dysregulated neuro system. I think I skipped a trial of it because it does cause bowel effects after a certain intake level, but I would imagine that if it's dosed in relatively small amounts at several intervals during the day, it should be fine.

I also agree with @godlovesatrier and Josh Liesk that taking anything in smaller amounts at more intervals during the day is much better than taking a huge whopping dose once or even twice a day ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

What time of magnesium? I’m taking glycinate …

That's what I take, as well. Largely because you can take a large amount of it without the unpleasant bowel effects that magnesium's so famous for.

I also dose it in small amounts at regular intervals. I found that large amounts did absolutely nothing, but 50 mgs, along with some Vit C and the occasional addition of 0.25 mgs of melatonin worked really well for my pronounced and unendurable panic/anxiety attacks, eventually reducing them, first to much better, then to totally gone. The latter took about 3-4 months.

Since dealing effectively with that, I still take mag gly in the same way, just at wider daily intervals.

 

[Husband of]

Looks like the article is suggesting taking vitamin d and magnesium but says that if you take too much vitamin d without magnesium this can make you worse. I didn’t actually manage to see if it mentioned how much you should be taking of each. I think they also mentioned vitamin c and zinc?

 

[SWAlexander]

Looks like the article is suggesting taking vitamin d and magnesium but says that if you take too much vitamin d without magnesium this can make you worse. I didn’t actually manage to see if it mentioned how much you should be taking of each. I think they also mentioned vitamin c and zinc?

Vit D deficiency was one of my very very low (0.6 ng/mL) energy problems. Now, 6 months later, I´m in the range of 40 ng/mL.
Normal range: A level less than 12 ng/mL indicates vitamin D deficiency. https://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/vitamin-d-deficiency

Suggestion. Have Vit D, potassium/magnesium and zinc lab-tested before taking any of these supplements? There could be side effects if out of balance.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Looks like the article is suggesting taking vitamin d and magnesium but says that if you take too much vitamin d without magnesium this can make you worse.

The article suggests loading with magnesium before supplementing with Vit D, or making sure you have more than just adequate levels.

Vit D sucks up magnesium like a Dyson on crack, and since magnesium is so critical for so many other functions in your body's systems (the count has gone up considerably from the previous 300+ to the more specific 600-800), you need plenty of magnesium to support Vit D's absorption and utilization. If you're deficient, whatever mag you have available will be allocated to the most critical functions first, usually bones.

This is one of the reasons it's extremely difficult, but not impossible, to overdose Vit D.

Once you're sure you have good stores of systemic magnesium with sufficient daily magnesium to maintain them, the next thing after Vit D to add would be potassium, zinc, copper, etc. Potassium competes with other minerals, especially calcium and magnesium, if taken in large amounts. The easiest form to tolerate is potassium gluconate. I use Bulk Supplements powder form and titrate my dose to what my body feels like it needs. Many members here have found that with ME, potassium requirements are consideraby higher than otherwise.

I didn’t actually manage to see if it mentioned how much you should be taking of each.

It's not a hard and fast rule, and each system will be different in its requirements, so there's no way to tell you how much you should be taking.

Making it even more difficult, it's hard to get info on decent ranges of things like Vit D, which wander wildly from 30 ng/mL at the minimum to 100 ng/mL. There's a lot of controversy about what optimum levels really are, so the bottom line is up to you: wherever you feel best would be the optimal level, or close to it.

If you're uncertain of your or your wife's levels, it would be a good idea to follow @SWAlexander 's suggestion and get your mineral levels tested, along with a Vit D test.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Hi @Husband of .....
I meant to add a proviso at the end of the above, cause when I'm in a mini crash, I never know if I'm being as clear as I think I am, and it's a complex topic. Being dealt with by a super-simple brain right now.

So if anything isnt absolutely dead-clear, please feel free to just tag me and ask questions. I know how confusing stuff can get the deeper you delve into ways to find help ....

 

[Husband of]

Thanks both. It was pretty clear @YippeeKi YOW !!
I really appreciate the effort given the cognitive difficulties you have . But yes this is confusing stuff.

Can I ask where you are from? Just trying to work out if it will be easy for me to get these tests given in my country with a centralized health system it is more like doctor led healthcare rather than the (what seems like) patient led healthcare of the USA. We have the right to refuse of course just not the right to demand, everything we get must be recommended by the doctor if it’s going to be subsidized by the government. At least that’s my understanding. But these tests sound relatively routine so hopefully we won’t have too much trouble getting them.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Thanks both. It was pretty clear @YippeeKi YOW !!

That's a relief. On my less-than-good days it's sometimes hard for me to tell if it just looks crystal clear to me, because I wrote it and therefore have a clear idea of what I meant to say, or if I skipped over too much stuff that seemed to be already clearly expressed by the original source....

I really appreciate the effort given the cognitive difficulties you have .

They come and go, it depends on the day. When I've overtaxed my energy, either physical or mental, it's difficult ....

But yes this is confusing stuff.

Very. It may take a while for you to get up to speed on some of this, but the more you investigat things and as questions, the easier it'll be ....

Can I ask where you are from?

I'm from the U.S.....

Just trying to work out if it will be easy for me to get these tests given in my country with a centralized health system it is more like doctor led healthcare

So you're either in Canada or the UK, yes?

the (what seems like) patient led healthcare of the USA

Ha.

It may seem that way, but it def isn't. You'll get to know some of our stories better as you search these threads, and one of the things that stands out is how virtually impossible it is to get support, understanding, or even cooperation from many of our Drs over here ....it's really a struggle, and getting correctly diagnosed has eluded a whole lot of us ....

But these tests sound relatively routine so hopefully we won’t have too much trouble getting them.

They are. I dont think you should meet with much difficulty, but then I'm not deeply familiar with single payer healthcare policies and procedures, except that an awful lot of their patients aren't exactly delighted ....

 

[Husband of]

Thanks for the reply @YippeeKi YOW !!

I am from New Zealand. We have no practicing cfs specialists so i was looking for an immunologist and found out that we have only ten immunologists in the country, a 20th of the per capita number the USA has. Frustrating. Especially because we have specialist cfs researchers at both our medical schools.

and yes I do understand that even in the USA it is difficult to get care. I just get frustrated by the number of people who are like “oh, I’m thinking I might try such and such antiviral” or “what tests should I get done?” As if they can choose these things; and then they do seem to just choose to do what they want! It’s probably just a lucky few that have those luxuries rather than everyone in the USA but I do think the model helps with that - because private healthcare providers have incentive to increase the amount of healthcare they provide so they can make more money, whereas countries with public healthcare have incentive to put processes in place that ensure healthcare isn’t overspent and that pre allocated budgets aren’t exceeded. But then that same model in the USA means healthcare for the poor is appalling. And that means healthcare for a lot of pwme ☹️

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I just get frustrated by the number of people who are like “oh, I’m thinking I might try such and such antiviral” or “what tests should I get done?”

What is less visible in those statements is that probably at least 50-60% of the time, and possible eve more, thse patients are paying for the labs themselves, from the lab choices that have opened up all over the country in the last 10-15 years or so. They're not always cheap, but you can order any tests you want and get the done, at your expnse, anytime you want them.

As for anti-virals, a lot of Drs are very cautious about prescribing them absent an actual provable viral infection. There's a thread on this site recommending trustworthy internet sources from which to order pretty much anything that might be usually by prescription, again, at your own expense. Plus the risk of actually getting what you ordered and not some adulterated or forged version.

I do think the model helps with that - because private healthcare providers have incentive to increase the amount of healthcare they provide so they can make more money, whereas countries with public healthcare have incentive to put processes in place that ensure healthcare isn’t overspent and that pre allocated budgets aren’t exceeded.

That's absolutely true. Plus the fact that generally there's very little oversight of Drs who run things in hospitals and who get away with murder. Literally in some ases. Over here, it's harder but not impossible to run into one of those martinets ....

But then that same model in the USA means healthcare for the poor is appalling

You've hit the nail on the head. That's the main positive diff between a single-payer health system and a free market health system. While the poor might get better care in the single-payer system, it's paid for by reducing the width, breadth, depth, and variety of health care provided to everyone else. That's why England's Harley St doctors are still doing brisk business.

 

[BrightCandle]

@Husband of What I think is happening mostly is people ordering their own private lab tests and ordering from the list of global chemists that don't require prescriptions. Its not doctors helping people for the most part its people treating themselves.

 

[Husband of]

@Husband of What I think is happening mostly is people ordering their own private lab tests and ordering from the list of global chemists that don't require prescriptions. Its not doctors helping people for the most part its people treating themselves.

thanks. Do you know how people hide their imports from customs? I imagine the penalty for this could be quite harsh if caught.

 

[BrightCandle]

thanks. Do you know how people hide their imports from customs? I imagine the penalty for this could be quite harsh if caught.

Not all countries ban this, the UK and the USA don't. Check your local laws on medication import you may find its actually no restricted to the extent you imagine.

 

[Husband of]

Not all countries ban this, the UK and the USA don't. Check your local laws on medication import you may find its actually no restricted to the extent you imagine.

It’s not all that clear. I can’t import “controlled substances” and I can’t import prescription drugs without a doctors note from an NZ doctor. It’s not clear what I can do if it’s a drug that you couldn’t get in NZ.

 

[Husband of]

Hello friends,

we haven't had any tests done, but on a whim I bought some magnesium powder at a local store.
I figured powder was a good option as we could control the dosage.

so now I'm looking for a recommendation for dosage for her to try out for a start.

Also might be relevant so worth noting. my wife sometimes struggles to sleep when she takes a deep sleep magnesium supplements that includes A bunch of other stuff. I've taken this supplement too and it helps only if I get to sleep within about an hour of taking it and if not it makes it harder to sleep - I believe my wife has a similar experience.