Kelp, Arsenic, Heavy Metals....Detox?

[Cort]

Dannybex just posted an interesting problem in his very evocative story - kelp. http://forums.phoenix-cfs.org/showthread.php?t=318

After my mercury problems from eating a lot of fish I'm worried about everything in the sea. Mercury and heavy metals are dumped into the sea through the burning of fossil fuels. They disperse out through the waters - essentially they are everywhere - certainly in small amounts but still...I am wary about kelp and seaweed - although I love seaweed - it has a calming effect on me.

It's also possible that Danny cannot kelp from an area that had local pollution problems or that it is a potent detoxifier and it just pushed too many toxins out. That numbness and tingling reminds me very much of my experience with Mercury and fish.

Any ideas?

I'd also like to discuss heavy metal issues, as both last year (for nine months) and then suddenly this year (in May) I developed strong tingling and numbness in my feet, almost overnight. Of course this can be due to so many different causes, but the most recent TinglePalooza came on after taking kelp capsules for about 2 weeks. I had read that kelp may contain high levels of arsenic, but didn't think about that when I started the kelp, as I was desperate to reduce my tinnitus (which had suddenly gotten very loud) and had read how it helped that annoying condition. And it DID help the tinnitus, but did I pay the price? My hair's been falling out at double the rate (as it did late last year) as well. And there are many other surprising sources of arsenic, but kelp is one of the biggies. After a woman developed arsenic poisoning in 2007 (from swallowing kelp like after dinner mints for months) they tested 9 different brands of kelp supplements and found elevated arsenic in 8 of the 9.

A blood test showed an arsenic level of "6". The labs 'normal' range was 2-30, kind of wide, don't you think? Double checking online, most sites suggested the toxic range starts at "7".

So I followed up with a hair mineral analysis from DDI. Again the arsenic was elevated, but more importantly the rest of my minerals were heavily skewed. Iron, copper very, very low, and potassium off the charts.

 

[dannybex]

Hi Cort...Arsenic in kelp, liver, rice, chicken...! ???

Thanks for posting this.

Shoot, I had a reply almost finished, then went to open a new window to check another link, and accidently closed this window as well. augh.

Anyway, I can relate to what you've said...one can easily become worried about what they can or cannot eat. Sometimes I wander the grocery isles as if I'm trapped in a bubble, unable to enjoy what so many take for granted. At other times, I'm glad I know what I hope I do, so I'm no longer eating 'frankenfoods' that permeate the shelves.

My tinnitus flared after two salmon meals, and some cod liver oil, but perhaps that was due to an overall fatty acid imbalance. I want to get that tested, but don't have the $ yet.

But it wasn't until I had taken the kelp for a couple of weeks that the strong tingling and numbness (and hair loss) manifested itself.

Here's the link to one of many articles on arsenic and kelp supplements:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554843_3

Note that it also lists homeopathic arsenic as a possible cause of arsenic toxicity. I was prescribed arsenicum April 29th, about 5 days after the tinnitus flare, so I suppose it's possible that that was a factor, but the doctor gave me a second dose in June, indicating that despite the flare -- the numbness/tingling/tinnitus, etc.. -- he thought it was the right remedy, and this is from a doctor with 30 years experience.

Other potential sources of arsenic are dessicated liver capsules, and even rice -- if it was grown in an area where they used to grow cotton. Arsenic was used heavily back in the cotton-growing days.

And then there's CHICKEN. Isn't anything safe?

Arsenic has been commonly used as an antiparasitical in chicken feed for decades, so naturally it's turning up in chickens.

http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2004/Arsenic-Chicken-Roxarsone4jan04.htm

But, millions and millions of people eat chicken, rice, fish, etc., and even kelp and don't become chronically ill, let alone disabled.

So while arsenic isn't the greatest thing to consume, I just wonder if the real problem (with some of us) is our inability to detoxify arsenic or other heavy metals, not to mention other chemicals we're exposed to.

Which perhaps brings us back to restoring methylation and other detoxification problems discussed on this and other boards.

I don't know.

???

Dan

 

[Freddd]

Thanks for posting this.

Shoot, I had a reply almost finished, then went to open a new window to check another link, and accidently closed this window as well. augh.

Anyway, I can relate to what you've said...one can easily become worried about what they can or cannot eat. Sometimes I wander the grocery isles as if I'm trapped in a bubble, unable to enjoy what so many take for granted. At other times, I'm glad I know what I hope I do, so I'm no longer eating 'frankenfoods' that permeate the shelves.

My tinnitus flared after two salmon meals, and some cod liver oil, but perhaps that was due to an overall fatty acid imbalance. I want to get that tested, but don't have the $ yet.

But it wasn't until I had taken the kelp for a couple of weeks that the strong tingling and numbness (and hair loss) manifested itself.

Here's the link to one of many articles on arsenic and kelp supplements:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554843_3

Note that it also lists homeopathic arsenic as a possible cause of arsenic toxicity. I was prescribed arsenicum April 29th, about 5 days after the tinnitus flare, so I suppose it's possible that that was a factor, but the doctor gave me a second dose in June, indicating that despite the flare -- the numbness/tingling/tinnitus, etc.. -- he thought it was the right remedy, and this is from a doctor with 30 years experience.

Other potential sources of arsenic are dessicated liver capsules, and even rice -- if it was grown in an area where they used to grow cotton. Arsenic was used heavily back in the cotton-growing days.

And then there's CHICKEN. Isn't anything safe?

Arsenic has been commonly used as an antiparasitical in chicken feed for decades, so naturally it's turning up in chickens.

http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2004/Arsenic-Chicken-Roxarsone4jan04.htm

But, millions and millions of people eat chicken, rice, fish, etc., and even kelp and don't become chronically ill, let alone disabled.

So while arsenic isn't the greatest thing to consume, I just wonder if the real problem (with some of us) is our inability to detoxify arsenic or other heavy metals, not to mention other chemicals we're exposed to.

Which perhaps brings us back to restoring methylation and other detoxification problems discussed on this and other boards.

I don't know.

???

Dan

Hi Dan,

I know there is an alternate route for arsenic out of the body. I just don't know how safe it is. It turns out that methylb12 is deactivated by arsenic as arsenic takes several methyl groups (therer is more than one multi-methyl arsenic gas) becoming an extremely volitile gas that is exhaled from the lungs. This is detected by the person suddenly have a galic like odor on their breath without having eaten garlic. The gas is quite toxic. The doctor noticing this speculated that perhaps the person was not harmed by it because of the rapidity with which it left the body and the very small amounts at any one time. It was also mentioned that it should not be exhaled into a closely confined airspace.


Numbness/tingling /tinnitus are all b12 deficiency symptoms which could be caused by arsenic deactivating methylb12. There appear to be a number of mb12 based arsenic detox protocols under development or being researched.

 

[jenbooks]

Vary your food sources, try to eat as healthy as possible (I eat Amish grass fed free grazing beef, chickens and their eggs), vary your fish and where they feed (Atlantic, Pacific, north, south, fresh, ocean). Any concentrated supplement may or may not be safe--it could be contaminated with yeasts and bacteria too. Eat some seaweed, brew some bones like Dreambirdie suggested etc--different sources of minerals. Variety and conscientious attention to eating fresh local produce/meats from local farmers, organic otherwise, should help. Our normal food supply is completely poisoned. It is affecting the entire population in countless ways. Regular chickens live packed into coops with feces so bad the ammonia has become a hazardous pollutant in some areas. They're fed unhealthy diets, arsenic to fatten them up etc. They are processed with sodium phosphate (even organic is processed that way) thus in small print you will see "Retained water not less than...** percent." Retained water is code for salt--regular processed chicken is very high in added salt. The sodium phosphate plumps up the chickens adding to their pound weight and profit to the seller.

Their feces are fed to cows because of the high nitrogen content and cheap price. So the cows are literally eating chicken $hitt...The cows are given estrogen pellets under their ears to fatten them up. Antibiotics because they're sick. The hormones and antibiotics are passed on to us. The milking cows are kept pregnant 12 months out of 12 to maximize efficiency and the milk is full of excess hormones too, thus the cheese as well. I don't think goats are as commercialized so goat cheese seems healthier. Or foreign cheeses like sheep cheeses from France etc. Some farm raised fish are vegetarian (tilapia) and maybe somewhat healthy. Try to eat local fruits as well, as foreign produce ie Mexico has some banned pesticides. Try not to eat canned goods as the cans are still lined with BPA which functions as a synthetic hormone. Frozen foods are safer if you must store foods. Filter your water with something (I use PUR which is sort of low tech) and keep it in a glass pitcher in the fridge, not a plastic one.

 

[Lotus97]

I was just reading about Algin/Sodium Alginate from brown algae is great for heavy metal/mercury detox. It is supposed to be safe to use for people who haven't had all their amalgams (mercury fillings) removed. Kelp (Phaeophyceae) is a type of brown algae. I wasn't sure if Algin/Sodium Alginate is an extract or just a name for brown algae. I was considering buying kelp in bulk since it's a lot cheaper than the Algin/Sodium Alginate supplements, but now I'm having second thoughts after reading this thread. I did come across this product description for Frontier Kelp powder. Would this kind of kelp be ok or is it better to take Sodium Alginate?

Update: I just read that Medscape article posted in this thread and it said the woman was taking Icelandic Kelp. Does this mean that all Icelandic kelp is bad and I shouldn't take the Frontier kelp? I also don't understand why more people don't get sick. I also wonder if sodium alginate is contaminated also. I just ordered some because I thought it was one of the safest for metal detox, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Frontier Natural Products, Powdered Kelp, 16 oz (453 g)
Our kelp is hand harvested from a remote bay off the northwest coast of Iceland, in a manner that supports regeneration, and sustainability of the species. The plants grow deep in the tidal zone, away from the shipping lanes, where they are not exposed to the pollutants that may be present in other areas. Seaweed harvested from coastal regions near areas of heavy industry (such as the US and Japan), are prone to higher levels of contaminants such as heavy metals.
Botanical Name: Laminaria digitata.

 

[Lotus97]

Hi Cort...Arsenic in kelp, liver, rice, chicken...! ???

Here's the link to one of many articles on arsenic and kelp supplements:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554843_3

Note that it also lists homeopathic arsenic as a possible cause of arsenic toxicity. I was prescribed arsenicum April 29th, about 5 days after the tinnitus flare, so I suppose it's possible that that was a factor, but the doctor gave me a second dose in June, indicating that despite the flare -- the numbness/tingling/tinnitus, etc.. -- he thought it was the right remedy, and this is from a doctor with 30 years experience.

Other potential sources of arsenic are dessicated liver capsules, and even rice -- if it was grown in an area where they used to grow cotton. Arsenic was used heavily back in the cotton-growing days.

And then there's CHICKEN. Isn't anything safe?

Arsenic has been commonly used as an antiparasitical in chicken feed for decades, so naturally it's turning up in chickens.

http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2004/Arsenic-Chicken-Roxarsone4jan04.htm

But, millions and millions of people eat chicken, rice, fish, etc., and even kelp and don't become chronically ill, let alone disabled.

So while arsenic isn't the greatest thing to consume, I just wonder if the real problem (with some of us) is our inability to detoxify arsenic or other heavy metals, not to mention other chemicals we're exposed to.

Which perhaps brings us back to restoring methylation and other detoxification problems discussed on this and other boards.

I don't know.

I just found another another article about the study of someone taking Icelandic kelp found to have Arsenic. It also discusses the issue of Arsenic in chicken that dannybex. These passages paint things in a different light than the Medscape article dannybex posted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2137109/

the authors failed to report that the product was used at two to four times the suggested amount, of potential significance because of the naturally occurring presence of iodine in kelp. Speciation of arsenic into organic and inorganic forms was not addressed, nor was the amount of arsenic consumed calculated from observed concentration levels. Also, there were errors in marketplace and regulatory descriptions.

The supplement was identified as Icelandic Kelp. The patient “initially took two tablets,” which was later increased to “at least four pills per day” (Amster et al. 2007). The authors overlooked the product’s label, which states that one tablet contains 225 μg iodine (150% of daily value)

Intake of iodine at least four times this product’s recommended dose must be considered a potential factor in evaluating the observed symptoms. Four tablets contain 900 μg iodine, 600% of its daily value. Amster et al. (2007) noted that the patient had a “more severe presentation than would be expected” from the measured arsenic level. In fact, of the several symptoms recorded after the patient initiated use (and overdose) of the product, only four symptoms—weakness, nausea, vomiting, and possibly erythema—are identified in the presented “clinical manifestations of chronic arsenic exposure.” However, these same symptoms, as well as headache and diarrhea—also observed in this patient—are also associated with iodine toxicity (Pease 1996), albeit usually at higher doses.

In their analysis Amster et al. (2007) did not differentiate between organic and inorganic arsenic. Arsenic is commonly found in seaweeds used as food (Rose et al. 2007).

As far as the difference between inorganic and organic arsenic in kelp I found some information about that in a nutrional analysis of kelp. I haven't read the whole PDF, but it also lists mineral content of kelp including about 20 different minerals. I don't know about most of them, but I've looked at different charts of sodium/potassium/calcium content in kelp and they seem to vary a lot so I don't know how accurate this is

http://www.claridges.co.nz/pdfs/Nutritional analysis of kelp.pdf

Arsenic is quite high in kelp, but this is normal for seaweed and other seafoods. The
form in which the arsenic is in an organic form, which is non-toxic. It is the inorganic
form that is very toxic. A provisional maximum tolerable daily intake of 2 μg/kg body
weight for inorganic arsenic has been set by WHO/FAO Joint Committee on Food
Additives. The US FDA have assumed 10% of the arsenic in kelp is inorganic.
Based on this figure then 11.7 g of kelp would have to be consumed to reach the
maximum tolerable daily intake (assuming a 70 kg person). This is much higher than
the amount of kelp suggested to consume above, thus it should not be an issue

Here is what the first article I quoted says about arsenic in chicken

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2137109/

Daily consumption of 5 oz chicken—about one-half a chicken breast [the amount of food from the meat or beans group needed daily by women > 51 years of age, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) current food pyramid (USDA 2007)]—at the allowed arsenic concentration of 0.5 ppm would contain 71 μg arsenic. To take in the same amount of arsenic from the tested samples of Icelandic Kelp, the patient would have needed to consume between 2 g (at 34.8 ppm arsenic) and 45 g (at 1.59 ppm) of these tablets daily. Although she may have used an amount at the lower end of this range, her symptoms would be just as likely to be observed in persons eating more than half a chicken breast each day.

Also about arsenic in other nutritional supplements

Additionally, the authors were apparently uninformed about differences between “homeopathic medications,” regulated as drugs since 1938, and dietary supplements, which have been placed in a specific regulatory class only since 1994. The authors’ reports of adulterated products in Singapore (Tay and Seah 1975), England (Mitchell-Heggs et al. 1990), and Brazil (Mattos et al. 2006) are irrelevant to the U.S. marketplace and its regulations, as is the citation from a 1990 reference about labeling of “botanical medicines” in light of the 1994 law (Mitchell-Heggs et al. 1990), which requires supplement labels to disclose more information than conventional food products.

 

[Lotus97]

Do spirulina and chlorella run the same risk of being contaminated by arsenic or otherwise since they are algae like kelp? I've heard people say that spirulina and chlorella were possibly contaminated, but I wasn't sure what they meant by that.

Also, I've read that Iodine has detoxification properties so if someone is experiencing side effects from the kelp it might not be because it's contaminated, but because the Iodine is causing metals to be released. This can be either a good thing or a bad thing depending on whether or not a person's body is strong enough to handle detoxification and also if they're using proper binders/chelators.

 

[Danwine]

I grew up on a farm and we raised chickens the old way. if our chickens didn't get extra arsenic we would lose 2 or 3% to crippling tendon slip. That is the main reason you will find it in chicken. (Our soil was very deficient in zinc and selenium that could have had an effect.)
I've been searching for years for a way to get rid of a case of cadmium poisoning from welding contaminated galvanized metal. Arsenic has the potential to react with cadmium and make insoluble cadmium arsenate, like selenium reacts with mercury to bind it as insoluble mercury selenate. It is just a theory of mine. I will say that i have taken as much as 10 times the recommended amount of kelp for several months with no iodine or arsenic over-use side effects. i am thinking i need more because of the cadmium problem.
Dannybex, how did your second dose of arsenic in June go?