Jarred Younger Presents: How We Can See ME/CFS Inflammation In the Brain

Consul

Senior Member
Messages
271
Likes
876
Moderator note: Posts #1-7 were moved from "Where's Jarred? :)"


edit: yuuge showdown coming in 2-3 months from younger when he will be able to test his first me cfs patients for B and T cells migration into the brain. Hes used years to make the experiment possible and there are possible treatments if this is whats going on. HCs have been looked at, they dont have migration as expected.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,029
Likes
12,310
Location
U.S., Earth
he will be able to test his first me cfs patients for B and T cells migration into the brain.
I'm really not sure what the point of this is. Neuroinflammation has nothing to do with immune cell migration into the brain.

Neuroinflammation only refers to the immune cells that live inside the brain, such as memory T cells, macrophages (also known as microglia), and mast cells. (and probably many others that have not yet been discovered)

This is just as curious as his experiment to look for increased temperature inside the brain. Unlike classical inflammation, neuroinflammation does not imply an increased temperature.

Younger may need to clarify to people when he is looking for classical Greco-Roman inflammation, not for neuroinflammation...
 

Consul

Senior Member
Messages
271
Likes
876
@Pyrrhus well he is doing 3 new experiments it seems.

One is to look for neuroinflammation / activated microglia with the radio ligand dpa-714.

Then there is the brain hyperthermia where he claims that increased energy metabolism in activated microglia (vs unactivated microglia) is causing higher brain temperatures. But you dont think there is evidence for that?

And the third experiment is the leukocyte migration / classical inflammation. I saw a recent talk with Avindra Nath where he said that some of the long covid symptoms are probably caused by this.
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,029
Likes
12,310
Location
U.S., Earth
Then there is the brain hyperthermia where he claims that increased energy metabolism in activated microglia (vs unactivated microglia) is causing higher brain temperatures. But you dont think there is evidence for that?
It is certainly possible, but has never clearly been demonstrated, that the increased metabolism of neuroinflammation leads to localized increases in temperature in parts of the brain.

But until this phenomenon has been clearly demonstrated, you can not use a finding of increased temperature as evidence of neuroinflammation.

First you have to establish that neuroinflammation comes with localized increases in temperature, without any increase in blood flow to the brain. Only then will you be able to use such a finding as potential evidence of neuroinflammation.

But unlike classical inflammation, which directly implies an increased temperature due to increased blood flow to the inflamed tissue, neuroinflammation does not imply an increased temperature due to increased blood flow.
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,029
Likes
12,310
Location
U.S., Earth
Hi @Pyrrhus
You make a good point about the nuances of classical vs neuroinflammation. But terminology aside, if Younger's lab demonstrates B and T cell migration into the brain, that'll be pretty earthshaking, no?
Yes, depending upon how much migration there is, it could indeed be earthshaking.

But previous research seems to suggest that the B and T cells are trying to migrate into the brain, but they get trapped in the perivascular spaces surrounding the brain's blood vessels. As long as the blood-brain barrier holds tight, the B and T cells will accumulate inside these perivascular spaces, but will not actually succeed at making it into the brain:
1656278537622.png



If enough immune cells accumulate inside these perivascular spaces, the enlarged perivascular space might be visible on a standard MRI. For more information, see this post:

MRI: White Matter Lesions?!
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/mri-white-matter-lesions.79023/#post-2338967
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
678
Likes
591
I'm really not sure what the point of this is. Neuroinflammation has nothing to do with immune cell migration into the brain.

Neuroinflammation only refers to the immune cells that live inside the brain, such as memory T cells, macrophages (also known as microglia), and mast cells. (and probably many others that have not yet been discovered)

This is just as curious as his experiment to look for increased temperature inside the brain. Unlike classical inflammation, neuroinflammation does not imply an increased temperature.

Younger may need to clarify to people when he is looking for classical Greco-Roman inflammation, not for neuroinflammation...
I disagree completely.

What he is looking for has everything to do with ME/CFS and many other conditions.

Microlglia send out cytokines and communicate with the periphery immune cells and vive versa so I do not see your points as valid. EBV likely gets into the brain via migrating B cells infected with the virus and EBV is implicated in many neurological conditions, like ME/CFS and MS.

Neuroinflammation is imaged with many targets like temperature, lactate, choline, microglia in an activated M1 state as demonstrated by his work and others.
We are in the descovery phase of how to image this stuff and is the best we have right now because of people like Dr Jarred Younger doing work like this.

He is doing great work of great significance.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
678
Likes
591
Moderator note: Posts #1-7 were moved from "Where's Jarred? :)"


edit: yuuge showdown coming in 2-3 months from younger when he will be able to test his first me cfs patients for B and T cells migration into the brain. Hes used years to make the experiment possible and there are possible treatments if this is whats going on. HCs have been looked at, they dont have migration as expected.
If you have not already you should check out his video on this from 2 years ago, has essentially the same info but with more added in a shorter period of time.
Worth a look if you liked this.
here-
Dr. Jarred Younger - Neuroinflammation in ME/CFS - YouTube
The ME Action Network Sep 9, 2019 27.19min
 
Messages
39
Likes
118
My spidey sense went off at a certain point in that video. He said most people with ME don't have POTS. Or maybe orthostatic intolerance. Something seemed odd about that. I wonder what the symptom set of his cohort is.


Noticed this, and his remark about you always have to ly down in a MRI
There are the upright types