I've tried but i cant understand the paradoxic folate / donut hole .. anyone can help me?

[alterego14]

Well... is the third time I will try metafolin....,im suffering all kind of methylation issues... since 2015 .., now much better in some things..like blood pressure etc... but the histamine issue is worst than never...

I'm doing good on methyl b12...makes me feel very good...but everytime I try to take metafolin..all become weird.,, it changes all... I feel sick, anxious..unstable...

But I really need to address the methylation cycle...I can't keep this ridiculous diet...I've eliminated almost all ailments, and now every small piece of alimentary out of what I use to eat makes me feel so bad.... and my liver is very affected...

I worsened all due to 2 long SIBO treatment...which overwhelmed seriously my liver capacity.

So.... how I know what is happening with the metafolin? How I clearly know the difference between paradoxic folate deficiency and methylation startup symptoms?

Should I keep the metafolin until se if it goes better?
I'm ultra sensible to all medicines or supplements...and e,g metafolin I only can take 1/10 of a 1000mcg pill...and with huge effect

Any thoughts?

 

[MTpockets]

Sooo...I'm no expert but what works for me is to take a LOT more b12 than folate. Also I start with a very small dose of folate and slowly work up to a whole dose. I take buffered vitamin c to help with my histamines as well as quercetin. The key is to go SLOW. Hope that helps.

 

[alterego14]

Yes....slow titra is the only way to me....the methyl b12...I've started to take just 1 drop ( 1ml/ 1000mcg ..20 drops per ml) and was too wet to much for me....slowly increased ans in 3 years I've reached 1000mcg per day...otherwise I feel ultra wired.

But metafolin is other feeling...it makes me feel weird and sick..

I clearly know that I have methylation issues..,all my health problems are mediated by methylation pathways.... so WHY METHYLFOLATE DONT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD? I know this forum 3 years ago.,,the freddd protocol etc.,,but I can't found precise and explicit answer to this quesion others that potassium needing... but potassium is not a game...excess of potassium are very dangerous... so how much should I try to take without out in risk my life?

 

[MTpockets]

The supplements of potassium they sell in the store are very small amounts in each pill. I take a potassium gluconate that is only 3% of the RDA. But somehow it is way more effective than eating a sweet potato which has almost all the RDA of potassium. So in my experience supplement wise you don't need much to help. Also it may just be a case of you are going to release a lot of toxins and that is bound to make you feel horrible for a while. Don't be afraid to stay on the smallest dose of folate for years if need be. One other thing. I take Hydroxycobalamin instead of methylcobalamin. I tolerate it so much better and can therefore take a lot more, which really eased my symptoms when starting the methylfolate. I take an obscene amount of b12 and only 100% daily value of folate.

 

[alterego14]

I'm using a supplement I've found that has 650 mg of potassium gluconate per capsule...and I split in in 5 ....started that 2 days ago.... yes...maybe since I have my methylation stopped for years as soon as I take any amount of folate it produces a detox effect..anyway freddd says is not a herx reaction.... supposedly it's a paradoxic folate deficiency...

Anyway the FREDDD' PROTOCOL is very very aggressive to me...I cant even imagine handle those quantities...but supposedly..taking a small amount is worst than not take nothing....due to the paradoxic folate deficiency.... it's an evil puzzle....

 

[pamojja]

but potassium is not a game...excess of potassium are very dangerous... so how much should I try to take without out in risk my life?

Maybe read this contrarian opinion about potassium: https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/salud_potassium.htm

Personally - to avoid the problem of potassium salts potentially hurting the stomach - I only use bulk-powders, like potassium citrate, bicarbonate or chloride dissolved very well in a whole glass of water spread throughout the day. Haven't encountered any problems that way, taking up to 2.4 g per day for the last 10 years (about 1.36 g daily in average, additional to 4.6 g from diet). Also monitored serum and whole blood levels. While in serum potassium mostly was exactly at the middle of normal, only recently it exceeded a bit normal levels in whole blood. Therefore decreased it a bid again.

 

[MTpockets]

I personally use Dr. Ben Lynch's protocol. It is less extreme.

 

[alterego14]

Maybe read this contrarian opinion about potassium: https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/salud_potassium.htm

Personally - to avoid the problem of potassium salts potentially hurting the stomach - I only use bulk-powders, like potassium citrate, bicarbonate or chloride dissolved very well in a whole glass of water spread throughout the day. Haven't encountered any problems that way, taking up to 2.4 g per day for the last 10 years (about 1.36 g daily in average, additional to 4.6 g from diet). Also monitored serum and whole blood levels. While in serum potassium mostly was exactly at the middle of normal, only recently it exceeded a bit normal levels in whole blood. Therefore decreased it a bid again.

Well...I've never had low potassium..in fact in last test was around 4,2 .... I've started taking since started methylfolate...because with mb12 I didn't felt it were necessary...but.,since started potassium...my extra systolic that I periodically have seems has disappeared.. to be honest last year were only sometimes.... but maybe..even with good level in test I need potassium.... I take enough potassium in diet...but since my GI is destroyed due SIBO treatment dysbiose and all that along with being FUT2 hetero , I'm not absorbing well...or have a functional deficiency

 

[alterego14]

I personally use Dr. Ben Lynch's protocol. It is less extreme.

Ben lynch only wants money...and he have a lot of mistakes as well.... but I understand you...I've tried without success..maybe a middle point between Ben lynch and Freddie could work

 

[alterego14]

Maybe read this contrarian opinion about potassium: https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/salud_potassium.htm

Personally - to avoid the problem of potassium salts potentially hurting the stomach - I only use bulk-powders, like potassium citrate, bicarbonate or chloride dissolved very well in a whole glass of water spread throughout the day. Haven't encountered any problems that way, taking up to 2.4 g per day for the last 10 years (about 1.36 g daily in average, additional to 4.6 g from diet). Also monitored serum and whole blood levels. While in serum potassium mostly was exactly at the middle of normal, only recently it exceeded a bit normal levels in whole blood. Therefore decreased it a bid again.

Interesting link...but I've suffered of very low BP ..I think due to histamine intolerance ( when uncontrolled) and I take 5 grams of bio salt everyday.... I only take this salt I cant eat nothing processed so.,,5 grams

 

[MTpockets]

Ben lynch only wants money...and he have a lot of mistakes as well.... but I understand you...I've tried without success..maybe a middle point between Ben lynch and Freddie could work

There is a lot of free info of his on the internet. I don't pay for anything that I've used. I also don't buy his supplements. I use my own. But yes you get the idea.

 

[sregan]

So.... how I know what is happening with the metafolin? How I clearly know the difference between paradoxic folate deficiency and methylation startup symptoms?

I've tried to get ahold of this myself. This blog entry of mine might help you.

I thought I also read that "Paradoxical" deficiency that taking more (man made) Folic Acid doesn't help raise folate levels. Also Freddd seems to go into much more detail on finding deficiencies in his "Refeeding Syndrome" post.

 

[dannybex]

The absolute cheapest way to get extra potassium -- even cheaper than eating potatoes or bananas (if you can stand 'em) -- is potassium bicarbonate. I bought this FOUR years ago and still have half a bag. 1/4 teaspoon is approximately 1,000 milligrams. $8.66 for a one pound bag.

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Brew-Ohio-Potassium-Bicarbonate/dp/B07FZRQ21D

As for the 'paradoxical' folate deficiency thing, with all due respect to Fred, I think it's actually a methy-trap situation. The high folate may -- may -- be lowering B12 too much.

@alterego14 , have you tried folinic? It helps me whereas I cannot tolerate methyl-folate at all. The methyl-b12 will help methylate the folinic, whereas the methylfolate and methyl-b12 may be too overwhelming.