IV cocktails: which one? NAD+, glutathione, ozone, poly-MVA

[Mary]

I'll be getting my first nutritional IV next week, which is supposed to be covered by Medicare, and have a choice of what to get. My chief problems are PEM and weak immune system. I don't have brain fog or POTS, which is rather amazing.

And my body seems to do well at making energy since I started Cellfood (and also take a boatload of other stuff). Actually I've been able to cut my thyroid med in half since starting Cellfood.

The problem is I'm still limited in what I can do without crashing, no matter how good I feel, and then when I crash, I get sick each time. My WBC has been low for over 20 years.

So - where to start? I'm not interested in a Myers cocktail because I think I'm on a good vitamin regimen, doing well with various Bs and lots of C and vitamin D. I've been on top of those for several years.

I am going to be having Nutreval testing done, have an appointment next week (the same appointment) to get blood drawn, etc. so that should help some in figuring out what to do.

So the ones I listed in the title of this thread are the ones I'm chiefly interested in - NAD+, glutathione, ozone, poly-MVA - any suggestions? Also, I may be able to combine some, such as ozone and glutathione, but am not sure. All ideas are welcome!

 

[junkcrap50]

If medicare's covering it, then get NAD+. That's the most expensive out of all your options. Glutathione IV is relatively affordable as a cash price, with many IV wellness clinics offering it "over the counter". But NAD+ can be $500-$1000+ PER INFUSION (500mg-1g of NAD+).

 

[Mary]

Thanks @junkcrap50 - that's a good point. But I'm not sure if NAD is what I need. About 16 years ago 20 mg. of NADH (sublingual) a day gave me an incredible boost - lots of energy and no PEM - for about 10 days. It was expensive, I think around $75 a month, but I would have kept taking it, only it stopped working. I tried it off and on for several years thereafter and never had that reaction again.

Today my energy is pretty good (after crashing and then being sick for 4 days). So when I'm not crashed and sick, my energy is halfway decent, thanks to Cellfood and a bunch of other stuff I take which I won't go into here, unless someone wants to hear about it.

My biggest problem is PEM, so even though I feel good today, I still can't do all that much or I'll crash tomorrow, and then get sick for several days - it's endless. I felt good last Sunday, and overdid it (as I knew I was) and paid for it and then today finally have some energy again.

It's going to be a bit of an ordeal to get the IVs - the drive may be up to 1.5 hours each way if traffic is heavy, so am guaranteed to crash the next day, unless the IV has some effect on PEM. In other words, I won't be able to do more than one a week and depending how it goes, that may be too hard for me to attempt if it does make me crash every time.

So even though cost-wise NAD may be the best bet if covered by Medicare, I don't know if it's my best bet for dealing with PEM since NADH has had no effect on it since the one time it did help.

So I'm just wondering if anyone has any idea which of these IVs is most likely to help with PEM, or my immune system - of course it may just be a crap shoot. The doctor wants to start with NAD. I may just toss a coin!

eta: I just did a little reading about NAD+ vs. NADH and found that though related, they are different, so I may react differently to the NAD+ than I did to the NADH - it may be worth giving it a try after all

 

[zzz]

I would strongly recommend magnesium. It's good for such a wide range of things in ME/CFS, and the IV form allows you to get many times the benefits of the best oral forms, along with many of the benefits that the oral forms just can't deliver. IV magnesium should be infused no faster than one gram per hour, with a maximum of four grams per infusion. It's generally a good idea to start off at less than the maximum dose.

Parenteral magnesium was one of Paul Cheney's top two drugs, and the great majority of his patients derived great benefit from it. Parenteral magnesium is also recommended by a number of other top ME/CFS specialists. You shouldn't have any trouble getting your doctor to use it. And once a week is the typical interval for doses of IV magnesium. It can be done more frequently than that, but then lower doses are used.

 

[Mary]

Thanks @zzz - yeah, I know magnesium is good, it's just I've had the RBC magnesium test done a couple of times and it's always in the normal range. I do take a lot of magnesium already, so I don't think lack of magnesium is what's causing PEM for me. So for now I think I'll try a different one. I'm leaning towards ozone and/or glutathione. Oral glutathione has always caused a herx reaction for me, which makes me think I probably need it. And Cellfood which is supposed to increase oxygen has increased my energy and helped my immune system some, so that makes me think that ozone might be worth a try too.

 

[Lieselotte]

@Mary I think the answer may not be as simple as which one to get. You may want to do them all!

It's good you're getting your Nutraeval done again. The reason I say that is that if you are low on any nutrients, I wouldn't discount the vitamin IVs. Maybe Myers, but it's possible they have other vitamin IVs with more in them? Vitamin IVs made a difference for me. If you need them, do them!

You can also get your glutathione levels tested. And if they are low, get those too. Start low, though and work your way up. I get around 1400mg, but have worked up to that. Lots of people can do 3000mg, but not me.

And then there's NAD+. This one is definitely worth trying. But again, start low, at 250mg to see how you do. Before covid I would do 250mg every month or two weeks. I saw no benefit, and perhaps a negative effect from doing more than that. And the IVs are waaaay better than taking the NADH or even NAD+ supplements. I felt very little from those.

I have done vitamin + NAD and vitamin + glutathione sequentially the same day.

As far as the ozone or PolyMVA, I don't have any experience there. But if you try them, please let us know.
Also, I would be interested what clinic you're getting those?

 

[Mary]

I have done vitamin + NAD and vitamin + glutathione sequentially the same day.

Interesting! I never thought of this as an option, good to know!

Yeah, once I get the Nutreval testing done, I (and the doctor) will be in a better position to judge what I need. And yes, I should definitely get glutathione levels tested. The doctor will be running several tests in addition to Nutreval, and I don't think glutathione is on the list but I'll ask her to add it.

And then there's NAD+. This one is definitely worth trying. But again, start low, at 250mg to see how you do.

And the IVs are waaaay better than taking the NADH or even NAD+ supplements. I felt very little from those.

Very good to know, thanks!

I will be going Oasis Family Medicine in Glendale. They take Medicare, though they do have surcharges tacked on. I'm happy to pay the surcharge because I've seen Medicare doctors who know nothing about any of this, and this place is sort of a hybrid between Medicare and IM doctors who charge a fortune to walk in the door. (I checked - their surcharges are okay, they only charge for services not covered by Medicare). I'm seeing Dr. Kuo. I had a tele-appointment with her some weeks ago, I liked her a lot.

 

[Tiffyshea]

I've heard NAD is really good for energy and helping mitochondrial function. I feel like I'd have a hard time deciding between that and the Ozone... but I've been interested in Ozone since it supposedly helps you kill and detox viral infections and I have good old epstein barr.

Has anyone else done any research on ozone therapy? My functional MD doesn't want to recommend it as he says there isn't enough research on it and it's dangerous.

 

[wigglethemouse]

@Jesse2233 had a thread and a poll on NAD+ infusions. Once he recovered (i forget what worked) he left the forum
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ical-mitochondrial-genetic-repair-poll.57797/

 

[Mary]

@Jesse2233 had a thread and a poll on NAD+ infusions. Once he recovered (i forget what worked) he left the forum
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ical-mitochondrial-genetic-repair-poll.57797/

Thanks @wigglethemouse! This thread has a lot of very good information!

 

[Mary]

Has anyone else done any research on ozone therapy? My functional MD doesn't want to recommend it as he says there isn't enough research on it and it's dangerous.

And I think my functional MD would say the opposite . . . I've only done a little reading about ozone, but I have seen where almost anything outside mainstream medicine with all its patent drugs is considered too risky by many if not most doctors -- I'd want to do my own research when in doubt.

 

[Mary]

I won't be doing an IV this week after all. I just found out that there will be 4 other people in the room getting IVs at the same time - 6 feet apart, and wearing masks, but I don't think it's a good idea to sit in the same room for over an hour, maybe 2 hours with several other people! Dang! I asked them if there was a separate room I could use, said my immune system was compromised, which it is, but no go.

 

[junkcrap50]

I won't be doing an IV this week after all. I just found out that there will be 4 other people in the room getting IVs at the same time - 6 feet apart, and wearing masks, but I don't think it's a good idea to sit in the same room for over an hour, maybe 2 hours with several other people! Dang! I asked them if there was a separate room I could use, said my immune system was compromised, which it is, but no go.

You may be able to get the IV at home with COVID around. My doctor's office is having more than half of his patients do their infusions at home. However, he is in infectious disease and these patients are getting antibiotics or IVIG, which are far more medically necessary. But you can ask about it.

 

[Mary]

Thanks @junkcrap50 - it's worth asking about! They said they might be able to schedule me on a different day and time where I might have a separate room, but - since it is my first infusion, it can't be done this other way (I don't know exactly what that was), and also I will be fasting and getting blood drawn, so I can't do it a few hours later.

And getting there will be a bit of an ordeal - it's not like something I can just pop over for. What I'm leading up to is some time in the future it might be possible to get a separate room but it is tricky. So I don't think it's something I could do at home, at least not initially. But, I will definitely ask about it when I get my blood drawn