Is there a test that can prove elevated lactates in the muscles?..

[Lalique]

I have found in many places mentioned that we have elevated lactates in the muscles ( and brain, where it shoukd be none).

It correlates so well with my symptoms. Every muscle I use repeatedly becomes sore after repeated, minimal use, and, since I can't do much, it's usually in the legs.

I wonder if there is a test outside research facilities that can demonstrate this. My blood lactates are normal.

 

[junkcrap50]

I don't think so. Not that I know of. At least not in the muscle.

In terms of tests, there's the Ischemic Forearm Exercise Test. It measures lactate & pyruvate & ammonia levels after exercising your harm with the blood temporarily cut off. But that measures levels in your blood, not the muscle. But it may work if you draw blood instantly from the arm the test is done on. Usually this test is to diagnosis metabolic diseases of muscle. But I couldn't get a order for it from my doctor.

Other possibility, though less likely, is to take a muscle biopsy while the muscle burns/is sore. And see if the pathology lab can measure lactate levels in the muscle. But I don't know if that's commonly done in pathology or if they'd do it.

Another test that may be helpful in adding info to the lactate problem is a "non-invasive peripheral arterial tonometry" and/or "flow mediated dilattion." There are brand names of the test called EndoPAT test & Vendy's Endothelix. They test endothelial function to see if your vessels are stiff. If there's poor endothelial funcation, MAYBE there's a poor blood flow problem. But I don't think the test overall would be neccessary.

 

[junkcrap50]

I have the same symptoms. Muscles burn from combing hair, climbing stairs, carrying things, holding something to read (even just a sheet of paper), sometimes even just standing or sitting, etc.

Also if a muscle is in one position for a long time but not being contracted or working (for example, clasping hands on chest when laying down, crossing leg upon my other knee, etc.) it becomes painful and stiff after a while and while ache even after restting my positioning.

Mine started instantly after I took methylation supplements: mB12, aB12, mFolate, & carnitine. I never had any muscle or physical fatigue problems before this even though I already had ME/CFS for 7 years. I've ruled out several possible causes: mineral deficiences, vitamin deficiencies, others i can't remember. I think it's low blood perfusion in the capillaries from microclots or endothelial dysfunction.

 

[Lalique]

I have the same symptoms. Muscles burn from combing hair, climbing stairs, carrying things, holding something to read (even just a sheet of paper), sometimes even just standing or sitting, etc.

Also if a muscle is in one position for a long time but not being contracted or working (for example, clasping hands on chest when laying down, crossing leg upon my other knee, etc.) it becomes painful and stiff after a while and while ache even after restting my positioning.

Mine started instantly after I took methylation supplements: mB12, aB12, mFolate, & carnitine. I never had any muscle or physical fatigue problems before this even though I already had ME/CFS for 7 years. I've ruled out several possible causes: mineral deficiences, vitamin deficiencies, others i can't remember. I think it's low blood perfusion in the capillaries from microclots or endothelial dysfunction.

Sorry to hear it. Mine got worse after I got a common cold, 3 months ago.
Im going trough intense mefical gaslighting. Ive been on a sick leave after a secobd C infecion for 5 months now, all of my tests are normal and even the people who believed me in the begining are washing their hands of me. S8nce this us oneof my main symptoms, Im wondering if I coukd prove I have it.

 

[junkcrap50]

Damn. I'm so sorry to hear that. It's such a huge problem for patients like us.

Perhaps if you could test for microclots they might convince your doctor you have them and are causing blockages at the capillary level prohibiting oxygen uptake. A venous oxygen saturation (SvO2) test (or a cheaper but less revealing venous blood gas test) that comes back high oxygen would also show poor oxygen uptake. However, that's a lot of effort and money that could be wasted as it doesn't show proof, so it can only be used to convince a doctor of a hypothesis they may or maynot accept.

Unfortunately, the microclot test is only available in Germany & South Africa right now. Unless you can convince a pathology lab where you are to follow the instructions on how to do it.

It should be super easy for any pathology lab to do, but I couldn't get a pathologist & his lab and a different lab to do it. They said "we don't do that kind of test" even though it's super easy & they do the steps in the test in many of their usual kinds of test all the time. It's staining + using a microscope + take a picture. I think the reason they refused is because they don't want to make an interpretation/finding on a nonconventional thing. Don't know why they can't just take a picture and have the ordering doc make the interpretation. Sorry for ranting.

 

[Lalique]

Damn. I'm so sorry to hear that. It's such a huge problem for patients like us.

Perhaps if you could test for microclots they might convince your doctor you have them and are causing blockages at the capillary level prohibiting oxygen uptake. A venous oxygen saturation (SvO2) test (or a cheaper but less revealing venous blood gas test) that comes back high oxygen would also show poor oxygen uptake. However, that's a lot of effort and money that could be wasted as it doesn't show proof, so it can only be used to convince a doctor of a hypothesis they may or maynot accept.

Unfortunately, the microclot test is only available in Germany & South Africa right now. Unless you can convince a pathology lab where you are to follow the instructions on how to do it.

It should be super easy for any pathology lab to do, but I couldn't get a pathologist & his lab and a different lab to do it. They said "we don't do that kind of test" even though it's super easy & they do the steps in the test in many of their usual kinds of test all the time. It's staining + using a microscope + take a picture. I think the reason they refused is because they don't want to make an interpretation/finding on a nonconventional thing. Don't know why they can't just take a picture and have the ordering doc make the interpretation. Sorry for ranting.

No chancè of proving clots. I live in medival Croatia.
How do you test for venous oxigen saturation? I have checked w that finger device times and again, it was 99%

 

[junkcrap50]

No chancè of proving clots. I live in medival Croatia.
How do you test for venous oxigen saturation? I have checked w that finger device times and again, it was 99%

The Venous Oxygen Saturation draws a blood sample from the pulmonary artery using a catheter just right outside the heart just before blood is pumped to the lungs. It measure how good your body is consuming/using the oxygen in your blood. If SvO2 is high, that means all the oxygen wasn't absorbed after it was sent to the rest of your body. It's semi invasive as they have to insert a catheter from your leg/groin to reach the heart and uses ultrasound for guidance.