Interesting article on head injury and concussion causing similar to severe M.E symptoms including layers of sensitivities

Cinders66

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For those interested.

dr Michael van elzakker at Harvard symposium gave great and relevant talk (on YouTube
) most relevant bit mentioning concussion starts from about 9mins in


The Transcript below 😞 might not be fully accurate , I did it !
BUT It has recognition of overlap of m.e and concussion symptoms and he’s exploring that I think.

“The microphages of the brain, the “ big eaters” which eat up particles and pathogens, part of the immune system, are called microglia

When they detect cytokines or pathogens or anything to do with damage they activate, and change shape and all these little arms kind of retract, the cells themselves become thicker, this is called the state of activation and when that happens then produce a whole bunch of stuff and that includes things that excite neurons, that includes more cytokines and that includes a protein called trans locator protein. The trans locator protein is what we look for in these PET scans to see if there’s neuroinflammation

and importantly the neuro excitation modulators, (glutamate, prostaglandins...etc a whole bunch of stuff that excite neurons ) part of what that does is to make it really hard to concentrate, that’s the reason for example when someone’s has a concussion they can’t think straight, that’s the reason when someone’s had a concussion they are really sensitive to light and sound, these cells act as amplifiers of normal nerve signals and so we think that if neuroinflammation , as measured by microglia activation, is happening in this condition then that may explain some of the cognitive symptoms.

And importantly for a sort of sepsis model, these cells can enter a state which is known as primed. Which means that if they have previously encountered something really bad, whatever infection or injury they actually become kind of sensitised, a little bit hyper vigilant if you will,& we can not actually measure this yet, we don’t know how to do that, but it’s a functional thing we ... if we deliver the exact same level of stimulation to a primed microglia you get a huge response, even bigger than the previous one, and so this might explain for example why people in this condition have an extra big response to small stimuli, so for example if your microglia were primed that could explain why you are sensitive to chemicals,why relatively small subsequent infection can cause a really bad crash, why any provocation can cause an ongoing lengthy crash, so it is one of the things that we are trying to figure out. “
 
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I was a patient of dr mark gordon's for a year. he treats a lot of people with traumatic head injury. vets, combat sports. his theory is that trauma creates inflammation which leads to disrupted hormones. his plan is about supplements, hormonal testing, and hormone replacement.

this was one of my areas of exploration. i did play sports. i did get into auto accidents. i did loose consciousness a few times. so it seemed like a possibility. however i didn't feel improved on the many supplements on this program. later i learned that folates (which i took on this program) are an issue for me. it's hard to know these things with a great amount of certainty....but i am highly suspicious of folates now.

after not responding to the initial milder program i finally went to testosterone injections. ( i do have clinically low testosterone) they helped a bit with energy and in the bedroom...but the depression, brain fog, and other symptoms remained. in the end the side effects, long term dependency on testosterone (you basically never get off it because you feel awful), didn't make it worth it. i also hate injecting myself.

many people with brain trauma have an event and then weeks or months later have trouble. the delay in time can be confusing. also, when i got my concussion in college, no one ever told me depression was a common head injury symptom. sometimes i don't think people even realize there could be a connection.

at this point i don't think head trauma is my issue. i've had depression since i was 12. i've had mood, memory, anxiety, issues since i was a kid too. i had some head injuries along the way but they were not followed by a change in my symptoms.
 

percyval577

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“The microphages of the brain, the “ big eaters” which eat up particles and pathogens, part of the immune system, are called microglia

When they detect cytokines or pathogens or anything to do with damage they activate, and change shape and all these little arms kind of retract, the cells themselves become thicker, this is called the state of activation and when that happens then produce a whole bunch of stuff and that includes things that excite neurons, that includes more cytokines and that includes a protein called trans locator protein. The trans locator protein is what we look for in these PET scans to see if there’s neuroinflammation
Crittenden and Filipov 2008 summarize findings in a pathway which can elevate microglia activation.

and importantly the neuro excitation modulators, (glutamate, prostaglandins...etc a whole bunch of stuff that excite neurons ) part of what that does is to make it really hard to concentrate, that’s the reason for example when someone’s has a concussion they can’t think straight, that’s the reason when someone’s had a concussion they are really sensitive to light and sound, these cells act as amplifiers of normal nerve signals and so we think that if neuroinflammation , as measured by microglia activation, is happening in this condition then that may explain some of the cognitive symptoms. ...
This finding, on manganese in the glutamate/glutamine system, has also been reproduced and is commonly accepted: Wedler et al 1982. The systemic meaning is difficult to estimate, but it can be considered to go along with microglia activation, which are needed to clear the brain from old synapses.

I wonder if these metal could be one clue in the approach of vanElzakker.
 

percyval577

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at this point i don't think head trauma is my issue. i've had depression since i was 12. i've had mood, memory, anxiety, issues since i was a kid too. i had some head injuries along the way but they were not followed by a change in my symptoms.
the trauma and any depression inducing event might have been co-triggers for your mecfs, so I would not forget about the head trauma.
 

Cinders66

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I don’t think head Trauma was the cause of my illness. I do think there’s an interesting overlap between tbi symptoms and severe m.e suggesting similar processes might be happening, not that it would seem to bring any treatment. For this lady tbi symptoms were just waited on to subside.
 
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I don’t think head Trauma was the cause of my illness. I do think there’s an interesting overlap between tbi symptoms and severe m.e suggesting similar processes might be happening, not that it would seem to bring any treatment. For this lady tbi symptoms were just waited on to subside.
it is. do people around here get their brains scanned? MRIs? is there a CFS brain?

when i grew up TBI was not a thing. i saw my team mates in football get knocked silly more then once. these were 11 your olds having head to head collisions during tackles. then there are the hits you might take as a kid doing kid stuff. Back then no one thought...this could predispose my child to depression for a lifetime.

i think it's interesting to look at symptoms and how they are treated under difference diagnosis. what you're doing. too bad fatigue and depression are symptoms of so many things!