• Phoenix Rising needs funds to operate: please consider donating to support PR

Interested but wary about mucuna pruriens.

Chriswolf

Senior Member
Messages
130
Likes
101
My catecholamine levels in the past have just been the absolute pits, apparently if your catecholamine levels aren't great where I live, they don't think it's that much of a problem.

Lately, I've been dealing with dizziness and low blood pressure, salt and caffeine have helped in the past, however it seems as if caffeine really just burns me out more than anything at this point.

I have been responding reasonably well with L-tyrosine, although I'm still experiencing symptoms of low catecholamine levels which is why I'm interested in trying mucuna pruriens. I'm starting to wonder if I'm having a difficult time converting it into l-dopa or if my absorption is just poor in general.

The only thing about it that I find dismaying is that it apparently can shut down your dopamine receptors if you take too much, and that's honestly the last thing I need.

Has anyone here had any reasonable experience with it? Have they been able to use it and/or cycle off of it without feeling like total crap?

Any guidance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,214
Likes
8,790
Location
australia (brisbane)
Yep cycle it as i thinks its more a tolerance issue . No more than 2 days in a row and 2 off i found. But a side effect i found was i sweated alot.

I find low dose of modafinil more consistent , maybe good to try to alternate with dopa macuna? ?
 

Chriswolf

Senior Member
Messages
130
Likes
101
Apparently it is extremely difficult to get in Canada and it is regulated for prescription-use only.

Thanks for the info about the mucuna btw, I'm still pretty reticent to use it.

I think I would do way better on L-DOPS, but with all the shills in our government pushing for serotonergic drugs to be used as a panacea for everything, I doubt I could get my hands on that.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,551
Likes
2,436

helen1

Senior Member
Messages
999
Likes
1,416
Location
Canada
I have been taking small amounts for the last few days. I had no problems getting it here in Canada though I can't remember if I ordered it on I herb or bought it at a store. Haven't noticed any changes.

Will do as heaps suggests. Thanks for that.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
14,360
Likes
28,004
@Chriswolf
If you are looking to boost your dopaminergic system, then the following drugs and supplements can do this:


Dopamine Receptor Agonists and Dopaminergic Boosters:

Very low dose amisulpride — activates dopamine D2 and D3 receptors by an auto-receptor mechanism.

Deprenyl — a selective irreversible MAO-B inhibitor, which inhibits the breakdown of dopamine. Also called selegiline. Increases the sickness behavior inflammatory cytokines IL-1beta and IL-6, 1 so may not be advisable for ME/CFS.

Moclobemide — a selective irreversible MAO-A inhibitor, which inhibits the breakdown of dopamine. Moclobemide is one of the safer antidepressants: in one study, moclobemide was shown to have one of the lowest incidences of sexual dysfunction, a side effect common with antidepressants, especially SSRIs.

Memantine — dopamine D2 agonist (as well as an NMDA blocker).

Wellbutrin — a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI); though note that Wellbutrin's dopamine reuptake inhibition is very weak, so it is more of a NRI. See also: Norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI)- Wikipedia

Cabergoline — a potent D2 agonist (and weak D1 agonist).

Bromocriptine (Parlodel) — a potent D2 agonist, and agonizes various serotonin receptors. It also inhibits the release of glutamate, by reversing the glutamate GLT1 transporter, and inhibits norepinephrine release.

Pramipexole (Mirapexin) — an agonist for the D2, D3 and D4 dopamine receptors, but strongest agonism is on D3.

Bromantane (Ladasten) — interesting Russian drug which enhances dopaminergic neurotransmission in the hypothalamus, striatum, ventral tegmental area, nucleus accumbens, and other regions. This drugs works by up-regulating expression of the enzymes which create dopamine. Ref: 1

Ropinirole — acts as a D2, D3 and D4 dopamine receptor agonist with highest affinity for D2.

Tianeptine (Stablon) — increases dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens (a part of the brain involved with motivation and reward). Ref: 1

Amfonelic acid — research chemical with highly selective dopaminergic stimulant and antibiotic properties which may also function as a nootropic. It is a NDRI.

Spanish saffron (Crocus sativus) — increases dopamine (and glutamate) levels in the brain. Ref: 1 Several studies have found saffron to be as effective as pharmaceutical antidepressants.

NADH — this supplement increases dopamine (also increases norepinephrine and serotonin), but people sometimes report a loss of effect occurring over time. Ref: 1

Curcumin — a MAO-A and MAO- B inhibitor, increases levels of dopamine and serotonin. Increases BDNF. Ref: 1

Acetyl-L-carnitine — protects dopaminergic system? Ref: 1

Kava kava (Piper methysticum) — may agonize dopamine D2 receptors. Kava may also have effects on the GABA-A, mu-opioid and delta-opioid receptors. Ref: 1

GDNF (glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor) is known to promote the survival and differentiation of dopaminergic neurons of the midbrain. GDNF also causes an enhancement of dopamine release. Ref: 1 Rehmannia and Iboga increase GDNF.

Amineptine (Survector) — Atypical tricyclic antidepressant that selectively inhibits the reuptake of dopamine and to a lesser extent norepinephrine, thus exerting a fast-acting antidepressant effect. Can be classed as a NDRI. Was taken off the market due to stimulant abuse and due to cases of liver damage. Note: Tianeptine is a cousin of amineptine (Survector). How to buy amineptine ( Survector )

Apomorphine (Apokyn, Ixense, Spontane, Uprima) — is a non-selective dopamine agonist which activates both D1-like and D2-like receptors, with some preference for the latter subtypes. Apomorphine is given by subcutaneous injection or infusion. Also by sublingual tablets. Half-life = 40 minutes.

Apomorphine uses: originally a treatment of homosexuality in the early 20th century. More recently used for treating erectile dysfunction, and in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. Apomorphine is a potent emetic (induces vomiting) and should not be administered without an antiemetic such as domperidone. Ixense (aka: Uprima) = 3 mg sublingual tablet of apomorphine (as hydrochloride). Each tablet contains 3 mg of apomorphine.



Increasing Dopamine Receptor Populations and Density:

Citicoline (CDP-choline) — supplement that increases dopamine receptor densities. Ref: 1 Citicoline is metabolized into uridine (and choline).

Uridine — a supplement that promotes the creation of new dopamine receptors in the brain, an effect which is more pronounced in brains with fewer dopamine receptors (this is done by activating the D1 and D2 receptor signaling cascade, which stabilizes spikes of dopamine activity that would normally “burn out” receptors and reduce their effective number). Ref: 1 People notice an increase in general motivation. Your capacity to learn and retain information is noticeably better. Best taken with DHA, choline and B vitamins. Uridine + DHA may partially restore dopaminergic neurotransmission in model of Parkinson’s. Ref: 1

Amantadine — helps with the fatigue in ME/CFS (but Dr Bell recommends doses no higher than 50 mg in ME/CFS). Increases dopamine D2 receptor populations. Furthermore, the combo of amantadine + imipramine increases dopamine D2 and D3 receptor populations. Ref: 1

Citalopram — increases dopamine D2 receptor expression. Ref: 1

Fluoxetine and desipramine (tricyclic antidepressant) both increases postsynaptic D2-receptor expression. Ref: 1

Sulbutiamine increases the density of D1 dopamine receptors, when given to rats at a dose of 12.5mg/kg daily (which corresponds to an oral human dose of around 170 mg daily). Ref: 1

Inositol increases dopamine D2 receptor density. Ref: 1

High-fat diet increases of D2 receptors. Ref: 1

BDNF regulates dopamine D1 receptor expression. Ref: 1

Centrophenoxine proposed to cause an increase in density of dopamine receptors. Ref: 1

Forskolin — increases dopamine D2 auto-receptor expression more than the postsynaptic, but this may reduce dopamine levels. Ref: 1 2
 
Last edited:

Chriswolf

Senior Member
Messages
130
Likes
101
Thank you very much for the information, I will look further in to it.

I'm not sure whether I simply need to get my norepinephrine levels up or my dopamine.
 

Stretched

Senior Member
Messages
638
Likes
768
Location
U.S., Atlanta, GA
@Hip Great stuff! You're indefatigable. Maybe you have I-ME?;)

BTW, I had bought some Risperidone and Amilsulpride late last year from memory of one of your posts.
The script on the AM box is Baltic and I didn't realize low dose best at the time. 'Turns out they are 400mg!
I'm glad I rechecked today before starting it at 25mg. I cut them it 1/8's, and again as best I could as any further cut caused powdering:&. (Good brand though, Solian by Sanofi, i.e. Big pharma.) 'Appreciate your work. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Messages
66
Likes
23
@Hip do you find the saffron gives you glutamate anxiety problems? I may try it but don't do too well with excess glutamate. Can't take glutamine because of that. What do you think of rhodiola for helping dopamine and serotonin? It's supposedly Mao & comt inhibitor? Sometimes I take it I feel more motivated and better mood then other times I feel more grumpy and low. Only take 6 drops of a tincture. Have tried so many things for dopamine. Tyrosine makes me angry and irritable!! Mucana prueins makes me more anxious!!! DLPA worked fantastically the first time. Then didn't do much after that!! I sometimes wonder if it's because I am lacking in Co factors such as iron,b6 etc. My neurotransmitter test showed low NE and DDopamine. Why do I have such a shody brain!!
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
14,360
Likes
28,004
Doses of around 100 mg of Spanish saffron I don't find cause glutamate problems (like increased anxiety), but have noticeable antidepressant effects. This is one of my regular antidepressants that I take on days when depression hits. Higher doses start to increase anxiety very slightly.

Rhodiola rosea increases IL-10, which may make it harder for the body to clear viruses, so this supplement may be best avoided in virus-associated ME/CFS.

One thing that consistently works for my depression is very low dose amisulpride, which works on the dopamine autoreceptors rather than the regular dopamine receptors. Very low dose amisulpride is classed as a dopamine system stabilizer.
 
Messages
66
Likes
23
Thanks @Hip I may try the saffron. The amisulpride sounds really good but I probably wouldn't tolerate it. Since cfs I've tried 12 anti depressants and all made me feel physically worse. Even just 10mg of prozac. Before cfs I was on seroxat for 10 years.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
14,360
Likes
28,004
Thanks @Hip I may try the saffron. The amisulpride sounds really good but I probably wouldn't tolerate it. Since cfs I've tried 12 anti depressants and all made me feel physically worse. Even just 10mg of prozac. Before cfs I was on seroxat for 10 years.
I have had terrible reactions to the SSRI citalopram: just one pill dramatically increased my depression levels. However, very low dose amisulpride I seem to tolerate very well, and it feels more like taking an supplement than a drug, in terms of how "clean" it feels in the body.

I buy Spanish saffron stamens from the seller "fairlovely" on the UK eBay (cost is around £10 for 4 grams). This appears to be a genuine product, as it checks out on the saffron test. I then weigh the saffron on my digital scales (which are accurate to 1 mg) in order to get a dose of 100 mg.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
2,761
Likes
5,211
@Chriswolf
If you are looking to boost your dopaminergic system, then the following drugs and supplements can do this:


Dopamine Receptor Agonists and Dopaminergic Boosters:

Very low dose amisulpride — activates dopamine D2 and D3 receptors by an auto-receptor mechanism.

Deprenyl — a selective irreversible MAO-B inhibitor, which inhibits the breakdown of dopamine. Also called selegiline.

Moclobemide — a selective irreversible MAO-A inhibitor, which inhibits the breakdown of dopamine.

Memantine — dopamine D2 agonist (as well as an NMDA blocker).
Memantine was also tested to threat Bipolar Disorder, with some mitigate effects

upload_2018-1-7_11-24-2.png