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Hundreds of teenage girls in Colombia struck by 'mass hysteria'

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
The manufacturer's representatives are cited as claiming that they have the scientific evidence behind them, and that the opposition is based on opinion and prejudice. Cluster outbreaks do need investigating. Some unspecified people have hinted at mass hysteria. I want to know in what way is this claim objectively different from a conspiracy theory? Not one outbreak of mass hysteria has ever been proven, they exist on the record due to definitional fiat, and make the psychogenic fallacy en masse.

Yet to be fair there is no certainty this is due to vaccine issues. I would however like to add a caveat here. Vaccines and other chemicals may be relatively safe in average circumstances, but if some condition exists locally that modifies vaccine risk then the vaccine plus the other thing might be causal. This kind of problem is very very hard to work out.

In no case should the vaccine manufacturer investigate this in a formal capacity, just as you would not have anti-vaccination proponents investigating this. We need independent investigation, as usual. I doubt that will happen. If it happens I doubt they will have the necessary resources or terms of reference.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
Sounds like an outbreak of dysautonomia, not "mass hysteria", whatever that is. This reminds me of a recent case report I saw:

Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia With Chronic Fatigue After HPV Vaccination as Part of the “Autoimmune/Auto-inflammatory Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants”
Case Report and Literature Review
  1. Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD1,2
  2. Serena Colafrancesco, MD1,3
  3. Carlo Perricone, MD1,3
  4. Yehuda Shoenfeld, MD, FRCP (Hon), MaACR
Abstract
We report the case of a 14-year-old girl who developed postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS) with chronic fatigue 2 months following Gardasil vaccination. The patient suffered from persistent headaches, dizziness, recurrent syncope, poor motor coordination, weakness, fatigue, myalgias, numbness, tachycardia, dyspnea, visual disturbances, phonophobia, cognitive impairment, insomnia, gastrointestinal disturbances, and a weight loss of 20 pounds. The psychiatric evaluation ruled out the possibility that her symptoms were psychogenic or related to anxiety disorders. Furthermore, the patient tested positive for ANA (1:1280), lupus anticoagulant, and antiphospholipid. On clinical examination she presented livedo reticularis and was diagnosed with Raynaud’s syndrome. This case fulfills the criteria for the autoimmune/auto-inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants (ASIA). Because human papillomavirus vaccination is universally recommended to teenagers and because POTS frequently results in long-term disabilities (as was the case in our patient), a thorough follow-up of patients who present with relevant complaints after vaccination is strongly recommended.

http://hic.sagepub.com/content/2/1/2324709614527812.full
 

Christopher

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Pennsylvania
The manufacturer's representatives are cited as claiming that they have the scientific evidence behind them, and that the opposition is based on opinion and prejudice. Cluster outbreaks do need investigating. Some unspecified people have hinted at mass hysteria. I want to know in what way is this claim objectively different from a conspiracy theory? Not one outbreak of mass hysteria has ever been proven, they exist on the record due to definitional fiat, and make the psychogenic fallacy en masse.

Yet to be fair there is no certainty this is due to vaccine issues. I would however like to add a caveat here. Vaccines and other chemicals may be relatively safe in average circumstances, but if some condition exists locally that modifies vaccine risk then the vaccine plus the other thing might be causal. This kind of problem is very very hard to work out.

In no case should the vaccine manufacturer investigate this in a formal capacity, just as you would not have anti-vaccination proponents investigating this. We need independent investigation, as usual. I doubt that will happen. If it happens I doubt they will have the necessary resources or terms of reference.

There is a difference between "anti-vaccination" and "pro-vaccine safety". It is not just semantics but a true difference in ideology.
 

chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
I want to know in what way is this claim objectively different from a conspiracy theory?

well it is a conspiracy theory. the subconscious minds of the girls colluded in secret and decided to cause the same symptoms at the same time because of their inner conflicts and personal troubles

now they need to send a parachute battallion of freudian psychoanalysts to deal with this effectively.
 
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alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
There is a difference between "anti-vaccination" and "pro-vaccine safety". It is not just semantics but a true difference in ideology.

There are different camps in this debate, but I do take your point that many just want safety and are not anti-vaccine in principle.

I am not happy with current vaccine technology either. I think we need vaccines, but I think the current technology, the delivery systems, are dangerously flawed. Non-adjuvant and non-preservative vaccines are likely in the future.

We also need to get drug safety testing out of the hands of big pharma. Its a conflict of interest. They should pay an independent body to do the research, which gets paid regardless of outcome.

Yet vaccines possibly save millions of people every year. Its not a question as to whether or not we need vaccines, its a question as to whether or not the current claims and technology meet acceptable standards. I, too, think they fail.
 
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natasa778

Senior Member
Messages
1,774
I am not happy with current vaccine technology either. I think we need vaccines, but I think the current technology, the delivery systems, are dangerously flawed. Non-adjuvant and non-preservative vaccines are likely in the future.

But are you aware that this view automatically brands you as a lunatic anti-vaxxer!? (people have been burned for less) Protests are futile.
 
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alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
But are you aware that this view automatically brands you as a lunatic anti-vaxxer!? (people have been burned for less) Protests are futile.

I am probably branded much worse things than that. By demanding evidence, reason and accountability on everything important I am probably on a bunch of %*$ lists. Most of the super smart people on this planet, the ones I look up to as role models, are considered mavericks, looneys, trouble makers and so on. One of those was Dr Barry Marshal, before he shared a Noble Prize for his lunatic theory about H. pylori.

I have been branded a feminist, a Nazi, the Anti Christ, a bleeding heart liberal (probably, by inference), by implication a communist and for all I know even a terrorist, even though I am anti violence and believe in reason not violent opposition. Yet I stand for science, reason, integrity, evidence, humanity, capitalism, free speech, democracy, peace and justice. If you are against someone or something, you get vilified. Its a badge of honour.