How to use nitrous oxide safely, without causing b12 deficiency?

[frozenborderline]

The main problem with therapeutic nitrous oxide use outside single use for anesthesia , is that the amount that causes neuro degeneration varies wildly person to person it seems , like there are occasional cases of people getting b12 deficiency and spinal damage after a single anesthesia dose, then there are ppl who do a bunch of charges daily and are totally fine. If you have medical guidance it could be. a good treatment , but as far as I can tell nitrous isnt used by almost any clinics the way ketamine is

There is a single clinic I found that does regular nitrous oxide treatments, but its in a city I cant go to, houston. Heres the website. https://www.lonestarinfusion.com/blog/nitrous-oxide-for-depression

It seems like it would be so hard to safely self medicate with nitrous oxide even if you supplement with b12 as nobody seems to have worked out what the safe dose is, and without telling your doctor you are doing it , how can you get tested regularly for b12, folic acid, cbcs and neurological exams to make sure you aren't damaging yourself ?

So are there more clinics than this one I found that do this? Is this something I could bring up to a pain doctor?

I am prescribed ketamine, but it is causing bladder issues. I love xenon, but it is expensive. Hence why I am looking at nitrous as a possible mood enhancer and drug for pain. And even though I say I want to use it for chronic pain, I dont mean taking it daily. I mean using it infrequently to supplement regular opioids medication and NSAIDs and tylenol...

What are the safe doses of nitrous oxide? What are the contraindications? Is it used clinically besides anesthesia, for chronic pain or depression, outside of this single clinic ? Is b12 supplementation itself protective against harm, or is there a problem absorbing the b12 when you are taking nitrous???

 

[frozenborderline]

@Hip @sb4 @Wayne @Gondwanaland @Learner1

 

[Learner1]

I've never used nitrous oxide. The therapeutic approach you're currently using sounds very risky to me, including the NSAIDS.

If you're deficient in B12, that can cause permanent nerve damage. NSAIDS can be very hard on the liver and microbiome. Ketamine has some very serious risks.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for what's causing the chronic pain. B12 deficiency? B6 deficiency? Autoummunity? I might try things like boswellia serrata, high dose curcumin, GABA, theanine, phospholipids, Huperzine A, B vitamins, and amino acids.

Best to find a good functional medicine doctor who has a lot of tools to use rather than one big sledgehammer... or maybe a neurologist or osteopathic doctor. I don't want to be rude, but it sounds like you're looking for answers, so it's likely best to get to the bottom of this.

Best wishes.

 

[frozenborderline]

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for what's causing the chronic pain. B12 deficiency? B6 deficiency? Autoummunity? I might try things like boswellia serrata, high dose curcumin, GABA, theanine, phospholipids, Huperzine A, B vitamins, and amino acids.

I know exactly what's causing the chronic pain. That's the thing. Its cci/ligament damage and disc problems and various organic issues, it's not neuropathic , or central sensitization and is not really like typical fibro pain. Also high icp.

The problem isnt knowing the etiology of thr pain, it's being able to access meds to treat it.

Ketamine was prescribed to me partially on its merits but partially bc doctors are terrified of opioids. Nsaids and tylenol I dont like but I dont know what else helps for pain of this caliber besides opioid
Medical marijuana doesnt work for me.

I have tried many of the above supplements for more general me/cfs symptoms , but my pain is very similar to severe rheumatoid arthritis type pain or spinal injuries and I feel I need big guns. Nitrous is probably too risky but the reason I asked here is people research things and I thought may know, it's been around for awhile it's not a complete unknown.

Pain clinics have some tools but you have to wait so long to get there, I can barely make it out in a recumbent wheelchair even, I'm waiting for surgery and neck is worse every day , as 2ell as pressure headaches. My doctors think opioids are indicated but are scared of prescribing them. The only things that have helped are ketamine , the nsaids , opioids (was prescribed three courses short term ), and oxytocin the hormone , which is short lasting and expensive. And xenon, which is impractical. Now that ketamine is causing bladder symptoms my options are less. I know the root cause but I also try and think of things in the same category that could help as things that have helped in the past... strong nmda antagonists, anesthetics, opioids , etc.

Best to find a good functional medicine doctor who has a lot of tools to use rather than one big sledgehammer... or maybe a neurologist or osteopathic doctor. I don't want to be rude, but it sounds like you're looking for answers, so it's likely best to get to the bottom of this

You're not rude, but I do have several doctors, one of whom is a functional medicine doctor. I havent found the functional medicine doctor to know more than another specialist ivs been to who doesn't do alternative practices. But that's just my experience. It isnt as if I havent tried it though. I have a neurologist and a neurosurgeon and waitlist for another one. But none of them are doing pain management. The problem is we know at least two major causes of my pain... of course there could be more but in interest of simplicity we know at least two. But we cant treat bc doctors won't help me troubleshoot this and are scared of dea?

Typing this messgae even wore me out and going to every appointment leaves me in great pain.
.thays why desperate enough to consider something exoeriembtsl like nitrous oxide therapy...

 

[frozenborderline]

Oh yeah and I've even tried prolotherapy, which was a bust that just caused pain and a crash. My ligaments may be too severely damaged, or the mysterious cause of the inflammation may need to be treated first , but I've also only heard success stories with stem cells and prp for the most part, only a few with plain prolotherapy, and I wonder if you need a healthy immune system for that, whereas I have hyper inflammatory state.

 

[frozenborderline]

Oh and yeah, NSAIDs and tylenol have downsides as well as nitrous. But to clarify, xenon is 100 percent safe. It is safer than most drugs and hormones and herbs that most of us take, if administered with oxygen. It is one of the most safe and beneficial drugs I have ever studied. Just happens to be expensive.

 

[Wayne]

Its cci/ligament damage and disc problems and various organic issues

Hi @frozenborderline -- In case you're interested, I made an extensive post at one time on BPC-157, and how I hoped it might help strengthen or heal some of my own damaged ligaments.

 

[Learner1]

I know exactly what's causing the chronic pain. That's the thing. Its cci/ligament damage and disc problems and various organic issues, it's not neuropathic , or central sensitization and is not really like typical fibro pain. Also high icp.

I'm sorry to hear of your pain and distress.

Looking at rebuilding daamaged ligaments and discs might be helpful. The prolozone promoted healing and both it and prolotherapy helped muscles and helped create more space between discs to reduce pressure in nerves.

Typing this messgae even wore me out and going to every appointment leaves me in great pain.
.thays why desperate enough to consider something exoeriembtsl like nitrous oxide therapy

Definitely, I hear your pain, but desperate solutions aren't necessarily the best. Systematically and thoughtfully rebuilding damaged tissue may be more productive.

Oh yeah and I've even tried prolotherapy, which was a bust that just caused pain and a crash. My ligaments may be too severely damaged, or the mysterious cause of the inflammation may need to be treated first , but I've also only heard success stories with stem cells and prp for the most part, only a few with plain prolotherapy, and I wonder if you need a healthy immune system for that, whereas I have hyper inflammatory state.

Prolotherapy is more one dimensional. I did that the first time, but did prolozone for the second injury. Prolozone provides both oxygen and nutrients which promote healing - perhaps it might be better for the damage you describe.

 

[Judee]

This is a weird suggestion and a bit off topic but I'm wondering if low dose hydrocortisone would help. Pain makes our bodies need more cortisol and if for some reason your adrenals are having a hard time keeping up, it will make the pain seem more stressful even "louder" if that makes sense. (If your doctor won't prescribe it you could at least look for supplements that support the adrenals more.)

I am also thinking that others have mentioned LDN making pain issues better though I have not researched it much so you would need to look for the threads to see what others are saying about it.

Your situation sounds serious so I would not expect either of these to make you pain free but just if something could take the edge off of the pain sometimes that might make it a little more bearable.

There is also a very good article here about a supplement called DPA that this doctor recommends. He does explain how it is helpful. https://www.practicalpainmanagement...eutical/nutritional-supplements-pain-practice

I take it occasionally now for emotional pain and it does help some with that.

 

[Swim15]

Nitrous oxide is incredibly safe...much, much more than most of the treatments that people experiment with here on a regular basis. It would be so incredibly hard to fuck up with nitrous I wouldn’t think twice...definitely nothing I’d go to a clinic for. Ive never heard or seen in any literature of anyone causing problems after one use.

If you’re extra worried, supplement methyl b12 and dont rip through tanks every week.

Ive been going through about a 10lb tank every 2 weeks with no issues. A friend of mine did have neuropathy problems but he was ripping 20lbs a week for quite a while

 

[Swim15]

If you’re dealing with CCI or non vascular tissue problems then definitely give growth hormone a try. By far the best compound at healing/reducing inflammation and healing injuries, especially non vascular.

Ive used it extensively over the years and Ive coached dozens of athletes many with injuries. Have my 60 year old mom using it now for disk issues and it’s given her more relief than anything any doctor has done for her in the last 10 years