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How to start methylation?

topaz

Senior Member
Messages
149
Ive just started Freddd's protocol. I understand the need to "go slow" but could someone tell me or direct me to a post where some start up guidelines are suggested (I have read this in my travels but now cant find the page).

Should the cofactors be introduced at the same time (SAMe , TMG, L-carnitine, ALA and D-ribose)?

Should the adb12 and mb12 be alternated?

What does of Metafolin, mb12 and adb12 should we start at and what rate to build up at?

What is the start up potassium dose?

Thank you all again for your help.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Ive just started Freddd's protocol. I understand the need to "go slow" but could someone tell me or direct me to a post where some start up guidelines are suggested (I have read this in my travels but now cant find the page).

Should the cofactors be introduced at the same time (SAMe , TMG, L-carnitine, ALA and D-ribose)?

Should the adb12 and mb12 be alternated?

What does of Metafolin, mb12 and adb12 should we start at and what rate to build up at?

What is the start up potassium dose?

Thank you all again for your help.

Hi Topaz,

Basic info is at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?11522-Active-B12-Protocol-Basics

Should the cofactors be introduced at the same time (SAMe , TMG, L-carnitine, ALA and D-ribose)?

No. All the basics can be started at the same time. These critical cofactors should not as the effects all together may be too overwhelming and you learn nothing except all are needed.

My suggestion on order and timing is this; 1- SAM-e, 2 - L-carnitine fumarate & ALA, 3 - TMG, 4- D-ribose

If the TMG is started before l-carnitine fumarate you may not notice the effects of l-carnitine fumarate as it is toned down in some ways with TMG and the noticable effects may not be apparant though it does still appear to work but you might not notice easily. The SAM-e directly affects methylation. The ALA, L-carnitine fumarate and D-ribose affects the mitochondrial pathway but not the methylation. TMG can affect both but differently. All or some may be needed for best effects. The balance of them needs to be adjusted as the mb12 and Metafolin are titrated. Further the balance may change as various layers of healing has completed.

Should the adb12 and mb12 be alternated?

No. The mb12 needs to be taken at least once a day. The adb12 may be satisfactory once a week or more often. The CNS doses of 50mg are an entirely different matter that isn't of concern at this point.

What does of Metafolin, mb12 and adb12 should we start at and what rate to build up at?

There is much disagreement on this. I might suggest 1mg of mb12 sublingual (250mcg injected SC). A daily dose of 2.5mg of dibencozide daily or a 10mg each 4 days until it has no more immediate startup effects from a dose and then perhaps once a week or more as it has effectiveness. 800mcg of Metafolin twice a day might be a good start. Others say start with fragments and work up. I think that prolongs startup effects indefinitely. Mb12 startup often lasts until shortly after 15mg/day is reached. Adb12 might not last longer than 1 day. Metafolin may have no particular srartup effects unless the folate deficiency was severe enough to prevent mb12 startup until metafolin is taken, then you get mb12 startup when you add Metafolin.

What is the start up potassium dose?

I started with 99mg twice a day. Each time I had muscle spasms and other low potassium symptoms I took 500mg and added another 99mg to each daily dose. I am now at 1200mg and take an extra dose of 500mg at least once a week. Learn what your symptoms are so you know when to take an extra dose and to increase the regular dose.
 

Rockt

Senior Member
Messages
292
My suggestion on order and timing is this; 1- SAM-e, 2 - L-carnitine fumarate & ALA, 3 - TMG, 4- D-ribose

Are there particluar brands and dosages recommended?
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
My suggestion on order and timing is this; 1- SAM-e, 2 - L-carnitine fumarate & ALA, 3 - TMG, 4- D-ribose

Are there particluar brands and dosages recommended?

Hi Rockt,

I have found no consistant brand differences across people for these items. I titrated SAM-e from 200mg to 800mg and settled at 400mg for a year and then after I was injecting mb12, 200mg gave maximum effects and 400mg made no difference. I was floored by 125mg of L-carnitine fumarate. As it faded I increased by 125mg each time until 1000mg. Then I fell back after equilibrium at 1000mg to 500mg and have been stable for some years. Every now and then I try 1000mg to see if it makes a difference. So far none. I did the same with TMG and settled at 1000mg which made a tiny difference over 500mg.
 

Mij

Messages
2,353
My suggestion on order and timing is this; 1- SAM-e, 2 - L-carnitine fumarate & ALA, 3 - TMG, 4- D-ribose

Are there particluar brands and dosages recommended?

Rockt, I take the Doctor's Best acetyl-l-carnitine, it is a pharmaceutical grade from Sigma Tau. I also take R+ Lipoic Acid from Doctor's best. This has helped me. I live in Canada and have never had any problems getting it from iherb. They have the best prices too.
 

Rockt

Senior Member
Messages
292
Rockt, I take the Doctor's Best acetyl-l-carnitine, it is a pharmaceutical grade from Sigma Tau. I also take R+ Lipoic Acid from Doctor's best. This has helped me. I live in Canada and have never had any problems getting it from iherb. They have the best prices too.

Thanks Mon ame. I've PM'd you.
 
Messages
52
hi,

i am a bit confused about the basics. i understand they are to be taken at the same time. folate, adb b12, mb12. starting with 1mg of mb12, would be the ET infustion 1 mg, right? i also bought the jarrow mb12 5 mg, is this one for later as i go up in dose?

so start with 2x a day 800 forlate, 1x 1mg mb12 (and go up from there, usually reaching what dose?), and either 2.5 a day or 10mg every 4 days of abd b12.

i see the order of the cofactors but wondering WHEN to add them. says to add when start up effects, WHAT ARE THE START UP EFFECTS? what am i supposed to look for of feel?

do i take these things alone with other supplements or in the am or pm and away from other supplements, with food, without, same time everyday?

i am so very sick and want to do one thing right that may help me. i have made so many mistakes and prolonged my health and ready to get started.

thanks so much for your help.


topaz, wanted to know how you are doing with your protocol so far?

denise