How much better do you feel at night?

[joe000040]

Just curious for those out there, in general, how much better to you feel at night than in the morning? For me, i go from a 4-5 to 8-9 when nighttime rolls around. Generally after 7pm. Both my fatigue and brain fog suddenly lift (I've never experienced pain) and I feel close to normal. In fact, I used go to the gym at 9pm before I knew what I had. Might be an interesting poll question.

 

[nina22]

Me too, usually between 7pm and 8pm and it does feel like a lifting, the pressure and the fog just kind of ease off me. It's pretty sudden and then I get the jitters because I've usually slept all day and my body wants to run a mile but I still force myself to go to sleep because I don't want to switch my sleep schedule. Maybe I should just become a night owl idk. It used to really screw me up before I knew I had CFS because I'd think my "flu" was over and I'd tell work I could come in the next day...and then morning would come and I'd feel rough again. That didn't go over very well I can tell you!

 

[Muon]

Here is an example of a poll setup:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3456.0

 

[Wolfcub]

Through 2 years 9 months of this, I feel better generally in the evenings. Mornings and afternoons can be really tough. I often wonder if it might be because I eat my main meal about 6pm and that steadies me out, but don't know, it could be something else. I couldn't usually manage a full meal before that time.

Recently though (last 3 weeks) I've been getting acid reflux as an add-on new symptom, and that can sometimes start bothering me very late at night, when my stomach becomes more empty but it's too late to eat anything substantial again. So that's caused a short time later on when I don't feel so good.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Recently though (last 3 weeks) I've been getting acid reflux as an add-on new symptom, and that can sometimes start bothering me very late at night, when my stomach becomes more empty but it's too late to eat anything substantial again. So that's caused a short time later on when I don't feel so good.

I very rarely get heartburn thank goodness. Yet have odd bouts- like I'll take a tiny sip of water and - ??

Your comments made me just wonder about- there is sort of a digestive cycle,....folks can wax on about it but I notice if I eat a little something past a certain time, I"m much more likely to have digestive issues. Some talk about a 12 hour window.

I hope its temporary for you and moves along!

 

[Wolfcub]

I hope its temporary for you and moves along!

Thanks Rufous So do I. It's worse when I eat a tiny bit, and when I start to get hungry for dinner and better after a full meal. It's no pleasure eating with it, but I have to, to calm it down, then it's fine for hours in the evening.

 

[bensmith]

I go from a bad zero to a good zero. Maybe even a one.

 

[Rebeccare]

I usually feel better at night as well, although it's not such a dramatic difference as yours. I think this is partly because I often wake up with PEM, and it's worse in the morning. But also if I rest all day, by the time night comes I have some energy saved up! I often joke to my husband: I've woken up just in time for bedtime!

 

[Sledgehammer]

I've felt better at night on many occasions and it got me thinking could a vampire lifestyle be the key.
But today, although I posted earlier suggesting I was feeling fine, the beast came back and grabbed me by the collar. I needed sleep earlier on, tried but my brain wouldn't switch off. So here I am, exhausted and ready to go up the wooden hill for another night of non refreshing sleep

 

[Wolfcub]

But also if I rest all day, by the time night comes I have some energy saved up! I often joke to my husband: I've woken up just in time for bedtime!

I think I know what you mean! I can get that too.

 

[Wolfcub]

I have felt that all through this time with ME/CFS. Calmer, easier, fewer symptoms, more gentle somehow in the evening, even though I might be tired.
Sometimes -although I like getting into bed and relaxing -I stay up just to feel better, and don't look forward to the morning.
Every night I still carry one tiny shred of hope that "tomorrow might be different...." It rarely is, but something inside can't give up that hope.
Definitely the worst time for scary symptoms is about 30 minutes after getting up, through to about 7pm or later, but particularly the first 3 hours of the day usually.

I wonder if it's a cortisol abnormality which causes that? I get very shaky and wired too in the mornings, even after I was forced to stop drinking morning coffee. But rarely get that horrid shakiness/vibration at night.

 

[Wishful]

I too get the daily variation in severity of ME symptoms. It does change over longer periods; I used to get worse around 2:30 PM and then get better later. Presently, the severity increases fairly abruptly around 5:30 PM, and for a few hours I'm too brainfogged to enjoy reading for long, but then around 7 I feel better again. Sometimes I feel energetic enough to want to go for a walk or some other activity, but I don't because that would cause insomnia.

I don't know what causes this quite consistent daily cycle. It doesn't seem to change gradually with the day length, or with changes in bedtime, or diet, or any other factor I can think of. It does seem to change abruptly, such as that 2:30 to 5:30 shift. If anyone has identified a factor that it correlates with, please share it.

 

[Wolfcub]

Presently, the severity increases fairly abruptly around 5:30 PM, and for a few hours I'm too brainfogged to enjoy reading for long, but then around 7 I feel better again. Sometimes I feel energetic enough to want to go for a walk or some other activity, but I don't because that would cause insomnia.

I don't know what causes this quite consistent daily cycle. It doesn't seem to change gradually with the day length, or with changes in bedtime, or diet, or any other factor I can think of. It does seem to change abruptly, such as that 2:30 to 5:30 shift. If anyone has identified a factor that it correlates with, please share it.

Is it connected with what time you eat dinner? For instance, I have often found that I can feel low both when I need food (but don't always realise it), then straight after eating, but as the food digests my energy gets better in the evening. Maybe 2-3 hours later.

 

[Wishful]

Is it connected with what time you eat dinner?

Nope, I checked that, trying different mealtimes and amounts and contents (proteins, fats, carbs) and didn't find any correlation. The symptoms just seem to flare up at x o'clock each day until some unknown factor abruptly switches it to some other time of day.

When I had my type IV food sensitivity, I had a precise consistent 48 hr delay for a year or so, then I switched to a rotation diet and the delay abruptly switched to 17.5 hrs. Some months later, I ate some cherries, and the delay abruptly switched to 23.5<something> hrs, for a few days before food poisoning cured the sensitivity. I didn't find any research on what mechanism is involved in such switching of times and delays, but it does exist.

 

[sb4]

I too feel noticably better around after 7pm. I have good circadian rhythm (sleep roughly 11pm, wake roughly 8am) and have measured my cortisol a couple of times and it follows the correct pattern so I don't think its that.

I suspect that night time insulin resistance could be a factor. Basically, our bodies become more insulin resistant after sun down as we burn more fat in order to get us through the night. There are studies showing impaired glucose/pyruvate metabolism and I notice increase symptoms with carbs. If our bodies start automatically increasing fat burning and decreasing glucose after sun down then we would be minimizing these issues at night time.

Just an idea. No idea if it is right or not.

 

[dave11]

According to Dr. James L. Wilson, adrenal fatigue is often associated with CFS, but commonly unrecognized.

Adrenal fatigue causes a lower cortisol level (energy metabolism), and affects aldosterone (sodium, magnesium, and potassium balances). AF may also lead to hypoglycemia (low blood sugar).

Cortisol has a circadian rhythm.

Cortisol should be high in the morning and gradually decline. It normally takes a dip between 3 PM and 5 PM. The level is strongly affected by meals and snacks which cause a burst of cortisol.

People with adrenal fatigue have lower cortisol levels, and the levels may be erratic compared to normal.

Higher sustained cortisol levels and improved adrenal health can be achieved by frequent small meals (every 2 hours). In addition, supplements like glandular extracts, vitamin C, bioflavonoids, and magnesium can be helpful.

Personally, for adrenal fatigue and hypoglycemia, I keep sugar and sea salt near me in case I need a boost at night. In the daytime, I take extra salt to address the aldosterone component.

For a good explanation, I recommend the book by James Wilson, N.D., D.C., Ph.D., who wrote "Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome."

 

[sb4]

@dave11 I have done salivary cortisol tests 3 times. You take a sample of saliva in the morning, noon, evening, and before bed. In all but 1 of these my cortisol has followed the correct rhythm and has been within range. I think there is something else going on with this night time boost effect.

 

[raghav]

At night our sensory overload on vision and sound are less compared to daytime. This is one of the factors I dont tire staying awake at night. During daytime my family members are walking around and watching tv which tires me quickly. Whereas at night I sit alone in the living room with lights dimmed and no external noise. This calms and helps you focus on whatever little we are able to do.

 

[Wolfcub]

It may be something to do with melatonin production? That would normally begin in the evening and peak middle of the night.

 

[joe000040]

I too feel noticably better around after 7pm. I have good circadian rhythm (sleep roughly 11pm, wake roughly 8am) and have measured my cortisol a couple of times and it follows the correct pattern so I don't think its that.

I suspect that night time insulin resistance could be a factor. Basically, our bodies become more insulin resistant after sun down as we burn more fat in order to get us through the night. There are studies showing impaired glucose/pyruvate metabolism and I notice increase symptoms with carbs. If our bodies start automatically increasing fat burning and decreasing glucose after sun down then we would be minimizing these issues at night time.

Just an idea. No idea if it is right or not.

What method do you use to measure your cortisol?