how many of you traveled to India or a developing country before you got sick?

Messages
2,079
Likes
5,565
When I returned, I had noticeably increased gastro-intestinal disturbances (IBS). Increased fatigue,
These gastrointestinal events provide the opportunity for Nitrous Oxide levels to rise, and possibly contribute to getting oneself Metabolically Trapped (tryptophan levels built up)....per some of these studies. (and assuming the trap is valid, still pending).

Everybody loves traveling, but catching these types of things is really quite serious and I wonder if its worth it for vulnerable people.

Everything I have originated in lovely California, pre- Tahoe.

A colleague of mine, in his early 60s- is in China temporarily...(wife teaching). He just told me he has some very serious lung infection that is not responding to treatment. Frankly: I was shocked somebody would go there and take those kind of risks, at this stage of life.

The following podcast is quite interesting...the last half is about: a mysterious BRAIN illness this man developed....and what caused it. See: SNAP JUDGEMENT. EPISODE Head Games from 8/29/19. ME people may find this quite interesting......
 
Messages
2,079
Likes
5,565
This makes me feel depressed because l am thinking of spending a month in a beach hut in India to improve my health. Were you all strict about bottled water and uncooked food?
Folks don't want to hear it: the BEACH is a very unclean place. Stuff breeds in the damp sand, worse than in the water itself.

People be careful! My husband walked in sandles on a lovely beach in Northern California. He "got something". On his feet. It could have been flesh eating bacteria. It took numerous doctors and very risky antibiotics to kill this creature he picked up. It was an ER doctor who "surfed" who figured it out.
 

humanrising

Senior Member
Messages
105
Likes
183
' This makes me feel depressed because l am thinking of spending a month in a beach hut in India to improve my health. Were you all strict about bottled water and uncooked food? '

Yes, I ate only cooked food, no meat no dairy, and boiled water or bottled. FYI, Bottled water can be opened and put tap water in and then recapped to be sold to tourists.

I spent my time mostly in the north of India, the furthest south was Varanasi possibly one of the most polluted place in India. The south of India has higher educations levels, Kerala has a higher literacy rates then the US, this will help you but it will not insulate you. You might be ok if you only consume food and water that you prepare your self otherwise you are at the mercy of others habits that they don't see the danger in.

People are extremely poor living in terrible conditions. You and everyone else are walking in, sitting in and breathing in animal and human waste. People and animals defecate in the streets and path ways and of course the fields. You can order a "chai" and it will have been made with boiled water and milk but the cup it gets poured into can have a drop of water from the dish water.... and you are sick.

I watched the owner of my guest house take the plates and cups and wash them in the "Ganga". The same place that people bathe and use as a toilet the same place that people are burned on the Ghats. Its a sacred holly place and the cross contamination doesn't register to everyone.
,
I love India and Nepal more then I could ever express, but now that I am ill I know I will never return. I would never put my body though more dysentery, food poising, carbon monoxide poising ( twice was stuck in a van where the very leaded gas was being sucked into the van). Its also a spitting culture mostly due to breathing in dust and dirt. People hack stuff up spit it our or blow there nose on to the ground or air around you so you have the added benefit of picking up germs this way as well.
I Rufuis is right you would never want to be bare foot anywhere in India but sand is often the worst.

I hate to be a dream smasher especially for some place I think is magical but with all that we have going on its a risk I wouldn't advise. I know people go and do ok but I also think its roulette...… and not safe for the already compromised. maybe Thailand?
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
1,574
Likes
2,034
Location
Austria
Though it is true that I travelled 1 year North and Central America, about 8 years South Asia (India and all neighboring countries) and 1 1/2 years overland from North to South of Africa - am also pretty certain to know my health difficulties really started with 4 plasmodium falciparum malarias caught in Central Africa. And which let me to leave this continent I liked the most, because otherwise I would already be death 20 years ago.

However, having travelled so much - and now with illness for recuperation on yearly vacations - I've always met a lot of aging travellers being in better shape. Travelling does expose to infections which in those countries do cause high infant-mortality. And when westerners travel there later in life they might come down for the same reasons, just later. But not particularly with ME/CFS, and any anectodal answer to such questions of its forum can be taken even less than observational.
Again, after so many posts appearently taking association of travelling with ME/CFS as a clear causation, I feel to have to clarify once more: Long after travelling I got really sick with a 60% walking-disabilty 10 years ago (from a PAD and a 80% stenosis at the abdominal aorta). 7 years ago it got worse due to a bad chronic bronchits lasting a whole year, earning me even a COPD diagnosis. After which I got so desperate, along with these conditions being on a long hope-less job-search, that I drew the towel. And after so many years flew to an Indian beach again, to try to at least cure the bronchitis with fresh sea-air.

Which worked after 5 month there. Though really got worse first, in that I had constant fevers (last time I had that was more than 20 years ago with malaria), nausea, diarhea and vomiting for a whole month. Probably a thypoid fever. Since this intervention worked so well for me, I repeated my 6 weeks vacations each deepest winter there. About 4 years ago I had complete remission of my walking-disabilty (while the COPD improved that much, no more monitoring needed; both are considered non-reversible diseases by conventional medicine). Only thereby realizing I had a constant problem with PEM, a symptoms for which I before have been non-cognoizant due to my other bad symptoms being so predominant. Also with lot of pacing, since 2 years I haven't experienced any PEM anymore.

These recuperative vacations to the South-Indian beach since 7 years added very beneficial interventions in my case, only difficult to get at home:
  • More whole body sun-exposures then ever possible the whole year in central Europe.
  • Swimming time not limited through colder water temperatures.
  • Direct contact to nature: earth, water, wind and animals 24/7. Minimal online time.
  • Leisurely and meaningful social interactions.
  • Access to affordable traditional Ayurvedic preparations. Also LDN.
  • Plenty of time to immerse in the here and now.
  • ...
I hate to be a dream smasher especially for some place I think is magical but with all that we have going on its a risk I wouldn't advise. I know people go and do ok but I also think its roulette...… and not safe for the already compromised. maybe Thailand?
Of corse, travelling does come with encounter of risks not found at home, though there are more immetiate and deathly risks in travelling than ME/CFS. And vis-versa. Therefore I think anyone has to evaluate the risks and make a responsible decision oneself.

To me in Thailand of the countless countries visited (including civil-war countries), I had the most dangerous encounter. Though being there only for a week waiting for a meditation visa for Burma, once eating a veggie soup in a street cafe, 2 Thai girls joined without being asked. Despite my extensive experience in strange cultural differences something happened never before or after: They asked if they could join in my bowl of soup. Being the open and welcoming fellow I am, I agreed to that to me really strange request. Only to see from the corner of my eyes moments later one spoon with a tomato disappearing under the table, and then put in the bowel again. That night I went to bed fasted.

Risk are always real. Deathly risks. Also at home.

you would never want to be bare foot anywhere in India but sand is often the worst.
I always do, at least on the beach before and after mid-day heats it up to unbearable hot. Sometimes I did end up stepping on holy cow-dung though..
 
Last edited:

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
1,574
Likes
2,034
Location
Austria
.. am also pretty certain to know my health difficulties really started with 4 plasmodium falciparum malarias caught in Central Africa..
..24 years ago. In that it continued with 3 further plamodium vivax malaras outside Africa. Culminating in a spondilodiscitis (infection of spinal cord) exactly at that height, where my aorta much later developed a 80% blockage.

I don't think one could seriously say my recent stays in India healed it again. Though it sure was one of many factors contributing.
 

percyval577

basal and ganglia
Messages
786
Likes
1,071
Location
Ik waak up
I havn´t followed the thread, but I think you might be interested:

Onsett Patterns and Course of [ME/CFS]
Chu et al 2019, using the Fukuda criteria


Table 1
Factors reported by subjects to be associated with their ME/CFS onset.

Factor Number of subjectsa Percentage of subjectsb (%)

Infectious illness 8464
Stress or major life eventc 5139
Exposure to chemical/environmental toxind 2620
Recent international travel 2519
Recent domestic travel 2317
Othere 2217
Medical injection 1310
Pregnancy 118
Surgery 108
Accident 108
Consumption of water from questionable source 108
Neurologic event 97
Cardiac event 86
None of the above54
Raw/undercooked dairy, eggs, meat22

aSubjects responding “yes” or possibly to factor as a precipitant. Subjects could choose more than one factor.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,079
Likes
5,565
A friend of mine is in China right now...in a bigger coastal city. Been there for over a year. He now has: some kind of severe allergic lung sinus problem thats not responding to medication.