Histamines!!

[alice1]

I was having a very bad time with my eyes running all the time..the drug alertec that i was taking releases histamine in the brain for clarity and energy..loved that part but had know idea that it was adding to my problem so my friend went and checked out more info about histamine.
Several studies have found (this one from Japan,National Cancer Center 2010) that too much histamine has a direct cause for auto-immune diseases.lupu,m.s.,ebv.cfs,lymphoma the list goes on.
They created drugs called Histone Deacetylases or HDAC or HD1 Inhibitors.The brand names of the drugs are
Vorinostat,Tubacin,Valproicacis,Sodium Butyrate...I`m sure there are others.
They also say using a proteasome inhibitor plus an HDAC inhibitor in a treatment for EBV and Lymphoma.
My pal who is a writer was reading all this over the phone, but I know she used wikipedia for much of the info.if you google one of the drugs or HDAC Inhibitor hopefully you`ll find what she did.
This is a conversation I`ll be having with Dr Klimas.I`ll keep you posted.

 

[alice1]

I just typed in a search for 'natural histamine inhibitors' and it took me to wikipedia with an explanation of what each receptor does.
H-1 H-2 H-3 H-4.
It also recommends what drugs are good for each antagonist.
As you'll see H-3 and H-4 are in trials.H-4 appears to have an immunomodulatory role and are being investigated as antiinflammatory and analgesic drugs.When we were reading from the findings today they were talking about H-4 as the receptor in regards to ebv,cfs.

 

[xrayspex]

that cilnic the Pfeiffer center is supposed to analyze whether you're histamine high or low and what to supplement.
All I know is benadryl gets rid of some killer headaches for me and helps me sleep but also seems to lower my IQ a tad.......

 

[alice1]

Hi xrayspex,
I believe it was in the H-2 section that said benadryl was one of the anti-histamines that can cross the brain barrier.
It's early here but later I'll email my friend and have her send me the links where she found all this information.
It seems all to simple but it's fascinating.

 

[zoe.a.m.]

This is very fascinating, and I hope, promising, stuff! I am one of the people who really benefits from Benadryl, but I think it's important to gather more info on these individual receptors, as again, we all have different imbalances/weak points that bring about similar symptoms in a huge population; there's every reason in the world to get specifics. I also am curious to follow any info regarding these meds having anti-inflammatory and analgesic qualities (and immunomodulatory)! I always have felt that histamine gets bumped from the list of neurotransmitters because of seratonin and noripenephrine, etc., but it's part of the group!

 

[pictureofhealth]

I've really benefited from Benadryl too. Can't sleep without it (although its supposed to be non drowsy!) and it stops skin itching.
However, it can make throat/sinuses really dry (obviously cos its supposed to be for hay fever!) and so sometimes I wake up in night cos I can't breathe/gasping for breath (?some kind of obstructive sleep apnoea).
Also get pretty wild dreams etc on it which I don't mind cos they are fabulous, but this is always connected to not being able to breath which wakes me up.
Both the wild dreams and lack of breathing can also be directly connected to the ME/CFS I hear too (?lack of oxygen to brain, or some kind of neurologically mediated sleep apnoea, or loss of autonomic nervous system 'function' - body just forgets to breath). Never been properly tested though.
Anyway, who cares, at least I fall asleep at night using Benadryl.

 

[alice1]

I'm still waiting for Jane to reply.I went to a naturalpath doc who put me on several goodies for histamine and inflamation.She said getting rid of candida will really improve allergy tolerance.They mention candida in these articles as well.So for the candida I started with 1 Olive Leaf cap at 500mg then after a few weeks i have to up it to 2 daily.Coconut oil gradually up to 2 teaspoons 2x daily.
High vit. C I take 9 grams 3x daily.
For histamine a product called Ribes nigrum(Gemmo) work up to 1/2 teaspoon 3x daily.This supports adrenal health and allergies.
Methionine, work up to 1/2 cap 2x daily (they come in 300 to 600 mg I found 500) this directly supports histamine breakdown as well as liver function.
Probiotics 2x daily.
I think this will help with the obvious allergens like pollen,dust,pets but helping keep the easy ones at bay will be very helpful for me.I sent her the breakdown of the different Histones so she may be able to find something that is somewhat similar for H-3 and H-4..maybe not but I know she loves a challenge and will look into it.I started this protocol at very low doses (except the C).I didn't want to give up on it with my body over reacting.
Still waiting for Jane.

 

[alice1]

Here's one link http://www.fpnotebook.com/ENT/DER/Hvs.htm this shows what histamines are linked to and you'll see auto-immune and e.b.v.It also gives info on what foods are high in histamine and over the counter drugs.
Also if you google any combination of Histamines and EBV or HDAC and EBV you'll come to hundreds of articles stating Histamines and EBV.
Jane found a drug called Doxepin which is an anti-depressant but is good for IB,sleep,anxiety plus plus and is also a great H-2 inhibitor that states it's 700x the strength of benydral..look that up as well.
This sounds too easy doesn't it!!!
I'm seeing my shrink this afternoon I'll let you know what he says.

 

[xrayspex]

Alice
Doxepin is one of Cheneys favorites and a common one used by CFS docs. I cannot tolerate it nor other tricyclic meds because I get the heart side effects on it, makes it race etc and doesnt help me sleep.
It took me about 3 years to really tolerate benadryl, started out at tiny drop of kids syrup and now take 1/2 tab before bed, it does help me sleep but its a love hate relationship as makes me sorta dull too intellectually, but not getting sleep makes me even worse!

 

[anciendaze]

I think it's important to tell people, particularly with Benadryl, that more is not necessarily better. Use the minimum dose that relieves symptoms, even though this is an OTC medication tolerated at reasonable doses by the vast majority of people. High doses can have paradoxical, even dangerous, effects for people with all our problems. Also, be very careful about depending on alertness, like driving an automobile. You may have a kind of hangover even after the antihistamine effects wear off. Start below the recommended dose.

I noticed long ago that histamines make me crazier than usual. This is not just irritability caused by pain or a stuffy nose. I've seen someone have an apparent psychotic episode during a reaction to wasp stings.

 

[Cloud]

Interesting! I took Benedryl for about 3 years through the sleep problem period. It helped me sleep, but the tolerance took me up to 100mg at night for sleep. I then developed RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome) which completely stopped when I quit the Benedryl.

 

[aiden424]

When I was first diagnosed with CFS years a go I was put on Doxepin 6mg liquid before bed. It knocks me out. I have slowly been able to increase it over the last 24 years. It still knocks me out. I sleep really well. I also take a really small amount of melatonin.

 

[anciendaze]

If someone can figure out how to phrase this so people without special medical knowledge can respond meaningfully, histamine sensitivity might make a good poll.

 

[alice1]

Just got back from the doc and he said that Doxepin was causing too much sleepiness which is why it's off label.
aiden424 may I ask what dose you're on and how do you feel when you wake up?
On another thread someone mentioned Dr Cheney said to stop taking certain supplements well in one of the journals they also list a few that increase histamine.
It's interesting that he also uses Doxepin,is it for sleep or histamines..does anyone know?
I can only recommend that people look up the info on the computer because it seems to be a fairly new or at least a newly studied discovery.
I'm very excited by it.

 

[aiden424]

I thought I"d read that Doxepin is the strongest known antihistamine there is. I'm up to 30mg now. I used to feel kind of drugged when I first woke up but I don't anymore. I use it for sleep.

Kathy

 

[zoe.a.m.]

I think it's important to tell people, particularly with Benadryl, that more is not necessarily better. Use the minimum dose that relieves symptoms, even though this is an OTC medication tolerated at reasonable doses by the vast majority of people. High doses can have paradoxical, even dangerous, effects for people with all our problems. Also, be very careful about depending on alertness, like driving an automobile. You may have a kind of hangover even after the antihistamine effects wear off. Start below the recommended dose.

Yes. In the last few months I've worked up to 50 mg 2x/night (my sleep is really screwy). I was on 25-50mg for 5+ years prior. Recently--I think I posted it elsewhere--I've had two small car accidents and fallen and almost broke my foot and generally had some coordination problems. First I was told it was stress, then that it was 'meaningful' and my subconscious was trying to tell me something, and then that it was just bad luck. Nearly breaking my foot really 'woke' me up though to the fact that something was going on. As I recalled the car accidents, I could remember clearly that I knew I had to react, and did react, but there was a lapse. I realized it was the same thing with my foot. Seeing a cord and stepping over it, but my body didn't follow as my brain told it to. I really had no idea that, if I felt awake, my brain could still be lagging to that degree. The symptoms did come on after the higher dose (100mg night) went on longer than just a week or two. I think it probably took a month or so for it to have such an effect, but I have very little doubt at all that it is the primary contributor.

It's certainly a double-edged sword with needing more as stress or illness makes sleep more difficult, and then the fallout that is gradual in how it comes on, and now wondering when things will calm down enough for me to even try titrating down.

 

[pictureofhealth]

My Benadryl packet says that the active drug Acrivastine is only 8mgs. It just has the effect of sending me to sleep really well, but I do wake up feeling 'drugged' the next day. I am supersensitive to medications (as many of us are).

For eg, for hayfever, it says to take up to x3 capsules a day. That would be impossible for me. I don't think I would be able to take even one during the day as I would be comatose and yes, I definitely would not be able to drive on it. I don't function well at all in mornings anyway.

The main action it has it that it seems to calm down the 'inflamed', 'hyperactive' part of my brain which has been preventing sleep until now. I've been taking them almost nightly for over 5 years now. But I don't think they will be good for the long term. Even the pharmacist wasn't sure what the long term effect might be, though family doctor thought it should be ok.

ps, I just buy them from the local shop for about 4.50 (UK) per pack (? US$8 or $9). They are not prescribed by GP.

 

[Wonko]

I've used basic over the counter antihystamines for years for spot pain control - I've tried taking them daily but ended up with severe head pains - my GP says it's unrelated but happens every time I tried it.

never tried benydril for sleep tho - might give that a go

 

[alice1]

I read that info as well aiden424 so I'm going to get a script from my doc next time I see him and start very low.
I remember leaves saying that coconut oil was high in salicyliates (SP?) and I wanted to thank him.He was so right.I stopped taking it and my eyes have improved a lot.Hopefully I'l be able to do the oil again in the future.