High dose melatonin

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,793
Likes
10,046
Location
australia (brisbane)
I know there's a million threads on this but why not another one, maybe more updated???

Some of the info I found on high dose melatonin was it being used for sleep and circadian rhythm disturbances, which many of us have an idea about.
There's information pointing high dose melatonin at improving metabolism and fatloss, possibly corresponding to melatonin helping to increase growth hormone. Also research showing it can reduce inflammation through lowering different inflammatory cytokines, a couple of things I saw on inflammation on covid and general infections.

My aim is through improving the above functions, will this reduce my chronic headaches. MRI 2 yrs ago is showed white matter lesions and blood vessel inflammation consistent with headaches/migraines etc.

Currently I take 10mg melatonin at night. Several months back I ran out of melatonin and wasn't in a rush to order more but after 2 weeks my body clock was non existent. I really didn't think melatonin was doing much but going it proved me wrong.

So today I recieved my high dose melatonin 20mg per tablet. I will start with 60mg and see what happens and if I need to taper up to 80mg and 100mg if needed.

I am on sleep meds, so may drop the dose abit, but I mainly want to see improvements in my headaches. If I sleep better that's a great bonus. I think it might be hard to have one and the other not improve to some degree.

Interested to hear other people's experience on these high doses of melatonin.

Just a utube video I found with general info. I'm finding utube videos much easier to absorb than reading research papers etc.

Cheers
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
2,656
Likes
6,336
In regards to sleep once you saturate the receptors more is useless.
You only need 1mg to do this which is what i take. I have tried 5mg and 10mg but notice no extra effect.

That said for some unknown reason folic acid helps my headaches, i now take methylfolate since long term folic acid may not be healthy.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,793
Likes
10,046
Location
australia (brisbane)
In regards to sleep once you saturate the receptors more is useless.
You only need 1mg to do this which is what i take. I have tried 5mg and 10mg but notice no extra effect.

That said for some unknown reason folic acid helps my headaches, i now take methylfolate since long term folic acid may not be healthy.
I use methyl b vitamins and methylfolate to see if lowering homocysteine would help with headaches, not luck but it's supposedly healthier to keep Homocysteine down.

I can't say I disagree with you on melatonin for sleep. Prior to tonight's high dose experiment I basically took the 10mg dose as the price wasnt that different to lower doses and going more for the extra antioxidant effects.

After my experiment I may try the lower dose as have heard some sleep better with the lower 1-3mg range.
 
Messages
15,155
Likes
35,002
Location
Second star to the right ...
Years ago, I read a heavily scientific article that stated flatly that, with melatonin, more is not only useless after a point, but potentially harmful. The cut-off was about 3 - 10 mgs, max.
In regards to sleep once you saturate the receptors more is useless.
In smaller amounts, melatonin not only gets you to sleep, it's also a fairly strong antioxident, and has been effectively used to combat oxidative stress, cellular apoptosis, and inflammation, as well as restoring tissue function.


But, the article claimed, in large amounts, it does the exact reverse .... it creates oxidative stress and damages cellular structures....
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,793
Likes
10,046
Location
australia (brisbane)
Years ago, I read a heavily scientific article that stated flatly that, with melatonin, more is not only useless after a point, but potentially harmful. The cut-off was about 3 - 10 mgs, max.

In smaller amounts, melatonin not only gets you to sleep, it's also a fairly strong antioxident, and has been effectively used to combat oxidative stress, cellular apoptosis, and inflammation, as well as restoring tissue function.

But, the article claimed, in large amounts, it does the exact reverse .... it creates oxidative stress and damages cellular structures....
That's what makes it hard trying to sort out the research. One paper will say its not good then another says its the best thing.
One good thing about these forums is seeing actual people's experiences and posting my own.
It would be good to have access to the research type testing to measure before and after inflammation etc
I'm interested if you have the article showing high doses increase inflammation. I haven't really come across anything negative only that for sleep lower doses are just as effective as higher doses.
I did see one video of a woman under the care of a Dr who had breast cancer and couldn't use tamoxifen in her treatment instead used high dose melatonin at 180mg a night. Apparently her Dr said the melatonin was working just as well as the breast cancer drug. But I don't know what other treatment she was on, plus really hearing it second hand through her about her drs opinions on it, not really a study.

Cheers
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,793
Likes
10,046
Location
australia (brisbane)
Go for it @heapsreal. It is a very interesting substance and most people think it's just for sleeping. You can find out how it affects you. Which article are you reading @YippeeKi YOW !! There is no lethal dose of this substance.

I follow Doris Loh on social media - she has a private group where people discuss things. So I can't discuss them here.

https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/23/15/8122
Yep, I will never know unless I have a go.
I can't recall if it's glutathione/nac or melatonin is the best antioxidant for the brain or probably heard both are 🤣👍
 
Messages
15,155
Likes
35,002
Location
Second star to the right ...
Which article are you reading @YippeeKi YOW !! There is no lethal dose of this substance.
As I thought I made clear in my post, it's "WAS" reading, probably around 2005 or 2007. I'm pretty sure it was in Life Extension's monthly 10-15 page newsletter.

It really surprized me, because they were one of the first sources where you could get melatonin, and here they were warning customers off of large doses. I wonder if they're still that honorable?

If you're really interested, you might try The WayBack machine before you scatter sweeping didactic absolutes around, yes?
 
Messages
15,155
Likes
35,002
Location
Second star to the right ...
I can't recall if it's glutathione/nac or melatonin is the best antioxidant for the brain or probably heard both are
Melatonin is an exceptioally strong antioxidant, generally, tho not sure if that applies to the brain specifically. I would guess it does, at last to a large extent. It's antioxidant effects are believed to be stronger than Vit C, Vit E, and glutathione ....

I combine my small dose of melatonin with Vit C, since they work synergistically .... and Vit C is excellent for numerous brain functions, particularly in the regulation of neurotransmitter biosynthesis, among other things that escape my COVID brain right now ....
 
Messages
15,155
Likes
35,002
Location
Second star to the right ...
My ideal dose is 1/2 MG of melatonin. Any higher, and I'm completely zombified the next day.
I agree with the low dose thing ..... I take 1.5 mgs, 0.5 mgs about 45-40 minutes before bed, then another 0.5 about 15 minutes before, and the last 0.5 as I turn out the light .... that's the most I feel comfortable with, cause like anything you put in your body, it affets endogenous production and can slow down or even potentially eliminate your own melatonin production ....
 

Marylib

Senior Member
Messages
1,082
Likes
1,375
As I thought I made clear in my post, it's "WAS" reading, probably around 2005 or 2007. I'm pretty sure it was in Life Extension's monthly 10-15 page newsletter.

It really surprized me, because they were one of the first sources where you could get melatonin, and here they were warning customers off of large doses. I wonder if they're still that honorable?

If you're really interested, you might try The WayBack machine before you scatter sweeping didactic absolutes around, yes?
I didn't mean to scatter didactic absolutes, as you put it. I have searched for a lethal dose and have been unable to find it. Of particular interest to me is the capacity of the molecule to interrupt phase separation. This is all I can find recently on that website.
https://www.lifeextension.com/newsletter/2022/8/melatonin-improves-heart-failure-in-men-and-women

Ejection fraction issues in cardiology have been explored here in the forum.
https://phoenixrising.me/myalgic-en...ting-the-heart-stroke-volume-future-research/
 

Marylib

Senior Member
Messages
1,082
Likes
1,375
That's what makes it hard trying to sort out the research. One paper will say its not good then another says its the best thing.
One good thing about these forums is seeing actual people's experiences and posting my own.
It would be good to have access to the research type testing to measure before and after inflammation etc
I'm interested if you have the article showing high doses increase inflammation. I haven't really come across anything negative only that for sleep lower doses are just as effective as higher doses.
I did see one video of a woman under the care of a Dr who had breast cancer and couldn't use tamoxifen in her treatment instead used high dose melatonin at 180mg a night. Apparently her Dr said the melatonin was working just as well as the breast cancer drug. But I don't know what other treatment she was on, plus really hearing it second hand through her about her drs opinions on it, not really a study.

Cheers
I guess you will find out if it causes adverse effects, @heapsreal, as it does a few friends of mine with ME. (Headaches for some). Another friend with cancer is having good luck with her high doses. She said it takes some getting used to - she ramped up very slowly.
 

Marylib

Senior Member
Messages
1,082
Likes
1,375
My ideal dose is 1/2 MG of melatonin. Any higher, and I'm completely zombified the next day.

The brand REMfresh helps me more than any other I've ever tried. It also comes in 2 MG and 5 MG.
I definitely prefer low dose for sleep purposes. Lately I have trained myself to get up with the sun and wind down at dark - trying to block out light sources - took me a long time to do this, but I am happy with it.
 
Messages
15,155
Likes
35,002
Location
Second star to the right ...
This is all I can find recently on that website.
I should have saved you the trouble. It was the first place I went as soon as I remembered where I might have read that research report, which is why I mentioned the WayBack machine.

I also noted that it was very hard to find opinions re the benefits, or otherwise, of high-dose melatonin from too many sources that don't also sell it or multi-ingredient products containing it .... even the very few studies I quickly browsed were obviously done by noe-to-disinterested parties. It's getting harder and harder to find decent science, everythig seems to be predatory, or leak out from predatory journals into sources I used to trust, like PubMed ...
 

Tammy

Senior Member
Messages
1,972
Likes
4,063
Location
New Mexico
I am sensitive to melatonin as some people are but I know of a few people in another support group that I belong to that have taken up to 40-60 mgs with no problems. They worked up to that amount.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,793
Likes
10,046
Location
australia (brisbane)
Well, been awake an hour now 830am and I woke at 730am. My normal sleep pattern of late is to wake up at 930 or 1030 am. I usually take meds at 9pm by 10-1030 - 11pm hopefully asleep. Then about 1am I'm up and take a stilnox/ambien and sit in the lounge for a short while until I feel sleepy but a typical example I will give of a recent night. So 2am still not groggy from stilnox but thought I'd try and lay down anyway. 230am this isn't working. Up I get and sit in the lounge again, just read stuff on my phone with red light on. 330 still not sleepy but feel like shit. Next step seroquel 25mg, usually knocks me out within an hr but no cigar. About 530am as the sun comes up I lay down and feel worn out and slept until 1030am. I wake up feeling crappy and usually a headache. By 2pm I'm more functioning.

Last night 9pm I took my usual sleep meds and 60mg melatonin. I was asleep by 10pm. I was sort of awake at 1130pm as I checked the time but couldn't be bothered getting up but it was more like a light twilight type of sleep until 1230am and I got up and took 40mg more of melatonin. I was out, some weird vivid dreams. I know I was trying to think of a way to strap my knee up so I could play football as my high school was playing another local high school football team we use to have a good rough and tumble game with. To let you know I'm 51yo so there was no reality in that dream at all 🤣🏉.
I woke at 730am groggy but ok and within 20mins felt ok and no headache. No strapping on my knee to play football or wearing a mouth guard so I don't think I was sleep walking.

At the moment the only gauge I have is how I slept and how I feel now I'm awake. I think anti inflammatory effects are going to take alot longer????? So far a good start. I will still try it one day but I don't think low doses are going to help me sleep better than I did last night but never know. Also see if a tolerance occurs. Previously I have used some things meds or natural supps and slept night one and than nothing after that but again time will tell.

Tonight I will start with 80mg but if I wake I won't go over a total of 100mg a night, yet🤔, see how I go. I'm actually shocked at how well I slept.

Cheers
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,793
Likes
10,046
Location
australia (brisbane)
Last night started with 80mg melatonin and usual sleep meds abit after 9pm. 1030pm I took another 20mg melatonin. 11/1130pm fell asleep and woke up at 6am. Definitely not as strong of an effect on night 2 but sleep quality is good. Had a few hrs yesterday before headaches started, see how today goes??

If I get a stronger tolerance to the sleeping effects of melatonin, I will then look into intermittent use of higher doses and on low dose nights stick to 10mg, really because I have a bottle of 10mg caps but might be handy to have the 3-5mg tabs.

Does feel good not waking up multiple times a night, for upto a couple hrs at a time, has to be better for your noggin.

Cheers
 

Marylib

Senior Member
Messages
1,082
Likes
1,375
@heapsreal - Doris Loh has been getting lots of questions - so she put this on twitter.

The most frequent comment on melatonin supplementation is "I feel awful taking the tiniest amount". When that happens, it is often a sign your mitochondria needs help from melatonin - A LOT of help, in fact. Take a look at this anecdotal comment. High-dose MEL & AA. Dynamic Duo!