Hidden dental infection

[fireflymd]

I traced the beginnings of my CFS to be temporally related to my first root canal. When I finally had this root canal tooth extracted, the roots were blackened/necrotic.

A week later, I felt cured—I felt completely normal again; that my CFS had completely resolved.

When I returned 3 months later to start the implant process, the bone this rotted tooth had been sitting in had collapsed quite a bit.

Shortly afterward, I had radiation therapy for a very tiny breast cancer, and 3 weeks later was completely debilitated. I have not recovered since.

If the maxillary bone that housed the rotted root canal tooth is still infected, how would I know?

The rotted roots never showed up on any digital panoramic x-ray or CT scan.

 

[Rlman]

have you seen the threads on this forum about cavitations? they should be helpful. @Ian is the expert on this. He shared his recovery story.

 

[Ian]

I traced the beginnings of my CFS to be temporally related to my first root canal. When I finally had this root canal tooth extracted, the roots were blackened/necrotic.

A week later, I felt cured—I felt completely normal again; that my CFS had completely resolved.

When I returned 3 months later to start the implant process, the bone this rotted tooth had been sitting in had collapsed quite a bit.

Shortly afterward, I had radiation therapy for a very tiny breast cancer, and 3 weeks later was completely debilitated. I have not recovered since.

If the maxillary bone that housed the rotted root canal tooth is still infected, how would I know?

The rotted roots never showed up on any digital panoramic x-ray or CT scan.

When you have dead teeth, the infection spreads into the adjacent bone. It's really important when the tooth is removed, the the site is also surgically cleaned out. And the bone is cut down until healthy bone is reached and bleeding is induced into the socket. Simply opening the site and pulling the tooth will kill the anaerobic bacteria, and you will get short term relief. But without surgically cleaning out the bone, there is a very high chance that as soon as the gum heals over the site, the the supply of oxygen is cut off that the anaerobic bacteria will start growing again.

 

[Pink]

Can you link the threads on cavitations? Many of my symptoms really flared around the time of my wisdom teeth removal.

 

[andy_smurt]

When I finally had this root canal tooth extracted, the roots were blackened/necrotic.

A week later, I felt cured—I felt completely normal again; that my CFS had completely resolved.

When I returned 3 months later to start the implant process, the bone this rotted tooth had been sitting in had collapsed quite a bit.

I had radiation therapy for a very tiny breast cancer, and 3 weeks later was completely debilitated. I have not recovered since.

If the maxillary bone that housed the rotted root canal tooth is still infected, how would I know?

xrays and CT scans have shortcomings.

Any update on your condition? I am curious. Was an implant placed?

Is there evidence of continued necrosis at that site, in the bone? Your writing made it sound as though there is. Yes some loss of volume will occur at extraction, but you're saying more bone lost there in comparison to other extractions you've had? Why you're told not to suck on straw after extraction is that the blood clot could be removed, if removed, less bone structure will be there than if it had stayed.

I recall when my dentist uncovered rotting under an extraction, he scraped it all out with metal tools, applied topical stuff (antibiotics?), then took photos.

Prior to radiation therapy consider the following: https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/134/11/3207S/4688649 I think there is a point that if your body is depleted/low of stores of things like vitamin E that you're gonna have a worse time.

In this case report, note they cultured the pathogen(s), and "20 sessions of hyperbaric oxygen therapy were important for the healing of the marrow space.":
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3808937/ (just an interesting thought I'd mention along the lines of Ian's writings of anaerobic bacteria)

 

[overtheedge]

are there any blood tests that will be changed by having a dental infection?

also, i'm curious about the same things as are quoted here:

Can you link the threads on cavitations?

 

[vision blue]

I am also interested in the cavitation thread. My CFS was also started by dental work which included a root canal. I also recovered completely, though it took almost a year. Then when i think it was 5 years later i had more dental work done, that's when it came back and hit full blown- never recovered since. I posted just earlier today on how dental stuff was to blame, and i've probably posted on it in the past as well. I like an idiot still have 2 root canal teeth in my mouth - becasue i have so many i blamed for reactions, would be impossible to do them all. And now i'm too sick to withstand it.

On the blood tests that might change if infection, I recently had an elevated LDH (lactate dehydrogenase) test. Since that one covers any tissue anywhere in body where there is chronic death, i would think dental infections would turn up there- i think that's the source of mine but i'm not sure (I frequently have dental abcesses). Other blood tests it might need to be system, not sure- like SED rate will measure inflammation from any cause, but if infection very localized an contained, not sure those type markers show up. interesting question. Xrays and cts and mris should show infections in a bone.

 

[Wayne]

Can you link the threads on cavitations?

Here's a start with three links...

My recovery story
...treatments out there, and some cost a fair bit. My own journey to recovery cost me a lot of money frankly. But the information is there, you...
Post by: Ian, Aug 23, 2012 in forum: General Treatment

My recovery website
I've posted a few times here over the years. Anyway, I guess I am one of the very few people to actually recover, ignoring those people that where...
Thread by: Ian, Jun 30, 2012, 7 replies, in forum: General ME/CFS Discussion

Cavitations and root canals
No I never had any of those. My main symptom was sore throats and lymph node pain in my neck, which was considerably worse on one side. Although...
Post by: Ian, Aug 14, 2015 in forum: General Treatment

 

[bjl218]

I'm coming back to this thread after having forgotten about it for a while. I already know that I have 3 cavitations where wisdom teeth were removed. I had a cone CT done by a periodontist in Springfield, MA. some time ago. This periodontist performs cavitation surgeries although he isn't a holistic dentist. I might decide to go back to have him do the procedure, but I wanted to do a lot more research first.

I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations for dental practitioners who perform cavitation surgery. Preferably a holistic dentist and preferably in the greater Boston, MA area (I already know about Groton Wellness, but would prefer not to go there). The greater Phoenix, AZ area would also be feasible since I have family there with whom I could stay while I recover.

Thanks!

 

[Wayne]

I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations

You may want to see if you can contact Scott at the website BetterHealthGuy. The link will take you directly to his own cavitation story, and it has a number of good links there to check out. I just quickly perused the Weston A. Price Foundation link, and it looked like an excellent article. -- All the best with this journey. I've agonized over these kinds of things for years, but still haven't taken has many definitive steps as I likely need to. -- Please keep us posted... Thanks!

 

[bjl218]

Thanks @Wayne. This is a pretty tough decision. It's one thing to decide whether to spend your money and time on this practitioner or that treatment. But cavitation surgery is painful and somewhat risky in addition to the cost and time. I'll look into those resources you suggested and I'll definitely post here if I decide to go ahead with the surgery.

 

[Wayne]

@bjl218 -- Just to mention, I regularly put drops of essential oils in my mouth (usually peppermint), and hold it for a short while. I often add 1/4 tsp of sodium ascorbate, which can help fight infections and/or toxins in the oral cavity. I've read that if we do have any kind of infection in our mouth, it can quickly deplete Vit. C levels, creating a "localized" scurvy situation. I also at times add a couple drops of DMSO, to help the oils and Vit. C get deeper into my gum tissue. I do other things as well, like oil pulling, etc. I think it all helps somewhat in combatting some of the effects of underlying cavitation issues.

 

[manasi12]

Did anybody of you get myofascial pain syndrome after wisdom teeth extraction ? Im suffering very badly since 9 months.

 

[jesse's mom]

I have been struggling with periodontal disease for years. I have lost top teeth that never had a cavity. Now I have one more tooth that needs to come out. It is hard on me to even get out and getting the deep cleaning at the dentist. I will post and let you all know how I do with upcoming dental surgeries.

I learned a fun fact today, the gas I get at the dentist's office has hardly affected me for the last 6 or so years. Looking into that found that the gas depletes vitamin B12.

 

[manasi12]

Hi @jesse's mom..good wishes for dental surgery. But honestly teeth issues are the last thing we need in this whole unending mess..

 

[Wayne]

I have been struggling with periodontal disease for years.

That sounds horrible @jesse's mom. Have you tried various things like oil pulling, or holding things like essential oils or Vit. C in the mouth? I do a variety of these things, and I think combined they help me keep a lid on my own oral issues.

 

[jesse's mom]

@Wayne I don't think I found any of this out until too late. Colloidal silver has been helping the remaining teeth, I think. I am still reacting to Vitamin C. What is oil pulling?

 

[suevu]

That sounds horrible @jesse's mom. Have you tried various things like oil pulling, or holding things like essential oils or Vit. C in the mouth? I do a variety of these things, and I think combined they help me keep a lid on my own oral issues.

Interesting, my case (like all) is very complex, but teeth do play a big part:

I have developed ME after a huge antibiotic intake in October 2016, fatigue went away -I actually had hyperactivity for months- to come back after more antimocobials in 2017, around August. In January 2018 all my root canals got infected and i got bedbound for 3-4months, severy ME!! sweating at the slightest effort, etc..

After removing ALL my infected root canals (which were there for many years), my theory is they got infected for developing ME after antibiotics, my inmune system crashed, I realy improved so i could wake up againe tc.. however i still suffer mild ME and all my root canals are gone.

I still have a kind of swollen area in the root of one extracted RC, nothing shows on scanners, doctor said i dont have to worry, but well i dont trust doctors any longer, i kno its not a tumor, but its something gonig on to be that swollen, do you think it could be causing my fatigue?

How can i check what's causing this swollen lump in the place where i removed my tooth? What would you recommend to get rid of it?

Thank you!

 

[Mary]

bump

 

[jesse's mom]

I am fairly certain that I have an infection in my bone in the upper where the periodontal sheath was infected for so many years. I also think it is affecting the sinus directly above that. I have got to get periodontal surgery, but I dread it with a passion. I think we are onto one of the areas that are aggravated by ME/CFS. Seems like anyplace an infection can settle in it will.