Tom Kindlon
Senior Member
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I posted this to Co-Cure back in 2008. I thought I'd post it here as many people won't have seen it there:
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FWIW
Generally a lot of people in the English-speaking ME/CFS world would be more familiar with the writings and talk on CBT by English professionals.
However, Dutch researchers have also written a lot on the subject and for general readers of the literature (e.g. people looking through PubMed), without scepticism, their claims that CBT is leading to "recovery" and "full recovery" in a reasonable percentage of patients can look impressive. [Aside: personally, I think they've haven't proved the patients have recovered at all, they've just set very low thresholds using a few questionnaires i.e. not objective measures].
Anyway, for my sins, I have recently read: Health Council of the Netherlands report on CFS (2005):
Dutch language version: http://www.gr.nl/pdf.php?ID=1167&p=1
English language version:http://www.gr.nl/pdf.php?ID=1169&p=1
(ETA: now at: http://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/en/publications/healthcare/chronic-fatigue-syndrome)
I'm thought some people might be interested in the p.68 extracts from:
~~~~~~~~~~ 6.5.3 Dutch experiences with CBT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Tom: so Dutch-style CBT couldn't be combined with medical treatments as some professionals in other countries might recommend.
One of the co-authors has been at various meetings small meetings organised by the CDC's CFS team:
. Prof. G Bleijenberg Professor of Medical Psychology, St Radboud University Medical Centre, Nijmegen
Two of the co-authors have also produced a lot of writings over the years (perhaps some others on the committee have published also):
. Prof. B Van Houdenhove Professor of Psychiatry, University Hospitals, Leuven
. Prof. JWM van der Meer Professor of Internal Medicine, St Radboud University Medical Centre, Nijmegen
It seems to me that no dissenting voices were let on to the panel.
Some other things in the report I particular disliked:
- bashing patient organisations [done not once but numerous times (if there had been patient representatives on the panel this would not probably have happened]
- the section on children (too many problems to mention!)
- Comments on "fitness to work". I'm appending a sample section below. The claims are repeated elsewhere.
Tom Kindlon
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Comments on "fitness to work" (Not a recommendation) (Make sure to read the first two bullet-points!!)
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FWIW
Generally a lot of people in the English-speaking ME/CFS world would be more familiar with the writings and talk on CBT by English professionals.
However, Dutch researchers have also written a lot on the subject and for general readers of the literature (e.g. people looking through PubMed), without scepticism, their claims that CBT is leading to "recovery" and "full recovery" in a reasonable percentage of patients can look impressive. [Aside: personally, I think they've haven't proved the patients have recovered at all, they've just set very low thresholds using a few questionnaires i.e. not objective measures].
Anyway, for my sins, I have recently read: Health Council of the Netherlands report on CFS (2005):
Dutch language version: http://www.gr.nl/pdf.php?ID=1167&p=1
English language version:
(ETA: now at: http://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/en/publications/healthcare/chronic-fatigue-syndrome)
I'm thought some people might be interested in the p.68 extracts from:
~~~~~~~~~~ 6.5.3 Dutch experiences with CBT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.67
"The Nijmegen Expertise Centre for Chronic Fatigue (NKCV) has developed a treatment protocol that is based on the perpetuating cognitive and behavioural factors from the aetiological model that was discussed in section 5.433,34,134,323,337. The main points are the 'restructuring' of dysfunctional ideas and behaviour, and controlled exercise. The protocol has been tested in a multicentre randomised study21"
P.68
".. it has been suggested that CBT is no more than a means of coping better with the symptoms. The treatment goal in Nijmegen, however, is recovery and a return to work: the therapy is considered to have been successful when the patient no longer regards himself as a patient33."
"Self-sufficiency is an important aspect. The patient must not undergo any other medical examinations or treatments for CFS during CBT because he needs to be able to attribute improvements to his own behaviour.* Furthermore, he cannot, for the time being, expect to receive assistance with such things as taxi fares and applications for services and facilities (e.g. a stairlift or electric mobility scooter), since these are incompatible with the objectives of CBT. It is extremely important to motivate patients to undergo therapy."
*Tom: so Dutch-style CBT couldn't be combined with medical treatments as some professionals in other countries might recommend.
One of the co-authors has been at various meetings small meetings organised by the CDC's CFS team:
. Prof. G Bleijenberg Professor of Medical Psychology, St Radboud University Medical Centre, Nijmegen
Two of the co-authors have also produced a lot of writings over the years (perhaps some others on the committee have published also):
. Prof. B Van Houdenhove Professor of Psychiatry, University Hospitals, Leuven
. Prof. JWM van der Meer Professor of Internal Medicine, St Radboud University Medical Centre, Nijmegen
It seems to me that no dissenting voices were let on to the panel.
Some other things in the report I particular disliked:
- bashing patient organisations [done not once but numerous times (if there had been patient representatives on the panel this would not probably have happened]
- the section on children (too many problems to mention!)
- Comments on "fitness to work". I'm appending a sample section below. The claims are repeated elsewhere.
Tom Kindlon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comments on "fitness to work" (Not a recommendation) (Make sure to read the first two bullet-points!!)
P.17
Openness is essential when assessing fitness for work. This is important in order to avoid (where possible) the many misconceptions and differences of opinion that surround CFS patients' fitness for work. One such misconception is the belief that the diagnosis and the cause of a disorder are what determine a person's entitlement to absence from work or to receive social security benefit. It is the responsibility of occupational physicians and insurance physicians to explain that manifestations and consequences of illness are what matters, and that the assessment of fitness for work hinges on three issues:
. General functioning: Someone who, as a result of disease or infirmity, generally speaking cannot function is also unable to work. If he is, in fact, able to function to some extent, then certain forms of work will also soon be possible.
. Consistency: of reduced fitness for work can only be said to apply where there is a logical and consistent relationship between illness, limitations and a decline in work participation. If that is not the case, then there is no incapacity due to illness.
. Problem analysis: People's stress load is only partly determined by working conditions. In addition to the medical aspects, an insight into the psychosocial context plays an essential role when forming an opinion on an individual's fitness for work.
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