Havana Syndrome: victims suffer symptoms much like ME

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Many of us are aware that a number of diplomats and goverment employees experienced some type of event in Havana Cuba in 2017 resulting in a variety of brain and neurological injuries.

The symptoms these people suffer is so similar to Myalgic Encephalomyelitis.

There have been additional recent incidents of these types of injuries in DC.

An excellent article was recently published in the New Yorker, on this topic.

Its a fascinating read.

It appears likely that these individuals experienced pulsed microwave radiation, espionage related.
This still has not been proven.

FBI profilers viewed it initially as a mass psychogenic illness. Interesting comment that they "never interviewed the patients" directly.

But the patient's doctors and neurologists had already ruled out that idea, as many victims did not know each other, and their bodies "could not have feigned some of the symptoms".

Symptoms sound alot like what some of us deal with, altho I don't think PEM is mentioned.

Small volume of white matter
Migraines
Swollen lymph nodes
Sore throat
Tinnitis and ear damage
Cognitive
Vision loss
Sinus and ear infections

They intend to study this more, by tormenting some primates. (bad plan).

Other interesting points from the New Yorker Article:

HAVANA PROTOCOL: a series of tests that some were given to check vision, balance,hearing and cognitive skills.

What was so demoralizing for one of the victims?

lack of definitiveness- you cannot prove what happened. But their lives were derailed.

The article link:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/31/are-us-officials-under-silent-attack

Here is another link to an online summary:

https://www.health.com/condition/rare-disorders/what-is-havana-syndrome

ANOTHER INTERESTING DETAIL:

The chair of the NAS committee looking into Havana Syndrome is- Dr.David Relman at Stanford University professor of medicine and microbiology.
 
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Here is a fascinating analysis challenging the diagnosis :

Challenging the diagnosis of ‘Havana Syndrome’ as a novel clinical entity

Robert E Bartholomew
, Robert W Baloh
First Published October 31, 2019

It seems our familiars at the Royal Society of Medicine have other ideas about this.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076819877553

It seems they are not aware of other more recent examples of potential attacks outside Cuba.

My personal opinion is: I don't know.

But why is this Royal Society of Medicine meddling around here? And the references...Simon Wessley sure loves psychogenic mass hysteria.

Per the New Yorker article referenced above, they describe about:

more than potentially 130 cases , from Columbia to Krygyzstan to Austria to now the White House grounds.
 

lenora

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Why aren't other countries involved in this matter? I can remember the original incident, but nothing has come out about it or the others for the intervening years.

I'd say everyone has a pretty good idea of who may be responsible, and London has had its own problems that are similar, so why aren't these agencies working together? Good article....but sad stories. Yours, Lenora.
 
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lenora

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Yes Andy, I'm sure they are working together....quietly. But it is taking other forms and a long time to solve. It must be especially difficult for the victims, but perhaps they're privy to more info than we think. Yours, Lenora.
 

Pyrrhus

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lenora

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Hello @Pyrrhus & @Rufous McKinney.....I did read that. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

I agree that radiation was somehow used to not just damage the environment where some of these people work, but the people themselves. I'm surprised they weren't more badly injured. One thing's for certain...an explanation is owed not just to the victims but to the general public.

And no, as in the Lake Tahoe incident, I don't believe that mass hysteria caused these symptoms. Yours, Lenora.
 

Jyoti

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I'd suggest we tread somewhat carefully on this one---it is inherently political and we really do not know what has and continues to happen. Or why. There has been a lot of investigation and very little clear explication to date. Two years ago it was reported by reputable sources that at least the sounds diplomats were crediting with an attack came from crickets.

I for one am just not convinced that we have even the beginnings of clarity on this situation and am concerned that the multi-valent nature of this story is one that encourages political speculation.
 

Jyoti

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I posted this because a committee including Stanford phDs will be looking at symptoms of the illness which shares some similarities with the cognitive issues. That seemed worthy of making note of.
I agree. I think it is a very intriguing and concerning occurrence. But I think it is easy to lapse into speculation about who is doing what to whom and that is going to be heavily influenced by how you see the world politically. I posted as a member, not a mod..
 

Pyrrhus

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I posted this because a committee including Stanford phDs will be looking at symptoms of the illness which shares some similarities with the cognitive issues. That seemed worthy of making note of.
There is an interesting link to ME here.

The main proponent of the "mass hysteria" explanation in the U.S. is Mark Hallett, who was originally assigned to the NIH's ME/CFS task force:
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hallett

The fact that a person with a long history of promoting "mass hysteria" explanations was chosen by the NIH to study ME was obviously a great concern to the ME community back then.

For more information, see:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...the-upcoming-post-infectious-nih-study.43223/
 

lenora

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Hi Pyrrhus.....I see that this a more recent "study" by the NIH than the one outlined in 'Osler's Web' or in any of the later books I read.

I know that I have been in many stages of this illness, some better than others and would not have made the perfect candidate, at least from our point of view. Now if I had been studied at one of my low points, the outcome may have been much different.

I do believe, like it or not, that the brain itself can be damaged by this illness and that makes it seem like a mental disorder. We have to have studies made by both the psychiatric community and the medical, as both sciences are involved. There is no doubt that my autoimmune encephalitis affected me cognitively and it has taken me months to make a recover. I'm not and may not ever return to 100% capability, but I am also in the older age group....I understand that. I work on this constantly and will continue to do so.

@Jyoti.....I agree that what occurred in Havana and elsewhere is a political matter and is probably being investigated. I think this was just brought up as a topic of conversation, nothing more nor less. We'll definitely leave this up to the governments involved. The main point I believe being made was that many of the symptoms were the same as ours. Similar, but not the same. I won't write or comment any further concerning it. Yours, Lenora.
 

Jyoti

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Hi everyone on this thread--I did not at all mean to be heavy-handed. Maybe I was just expressing my own suppressed desire to jump in from a political perspective! I was not suggesting that anything on the thread was objectionable or problematic, but rather that it is -- at present--a loaded topic because we don't know what has happened and who has done what. That, overlapping with our collective issues would make it easy to drift into a discussion without too many facts.

Apologies--I definitely did not want to stop this discussion, just put up some (perhaps unnecessary) bumpers on the path it travels. It is well worth our consideration.
 

lenora

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Hi everyone on this thread--I did not at all mean to be heavy-handed. Maybe I was just expressing my own suppressed desire to jump in from a political perspective! I was not suggesting that anything on the thread was objectionable or problematic, but rather that it is -- at present--a loaded topic because we don't know what has happened and who has done what. That, overlapping with our collective issues would make it easy to drift into a discussion without too many facts.

Apologies--I definitely did not want to stop this discussion, just put up some (perhaps unnecessary) bumpers on the path it travels. It is well worth our consideration.

Hello @Jyoti....I, for one, don't think you were being heavy-handed in the least. I wasn't upset about your post and can understand how many differences we all share. You're very kind in your remarks. Yours, Lenora.
 

Pyrrhus

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Hi Pyrrhus.....I see that this a more recent "study" by the NIH than the one outlined in 'Osler's Web' or in any of the later books I read.
Yes, this was a more recent NIH study launched by NIH head Francis Collins to try to play catch-up with ME research. Francis Collins, even though he was the head of the NIH, encountered great resistance to the study from within the NIH itself.

What a lot of people may not be aware of is that this study was just recently suspended so that the NIH could focus on Long Covid. But they acknowledge that their Long Covid study may eventually turn into an ME study.