Hashi's and bi-polar cortisol, is it possible?

Paralee

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I am wondering this because sometimes I can tell my cortisol is really low and sometimes it doesn't seem to be as low. Could this be caused by hashi's, or its antibodies? Supposedly I don't have much thyroid to produce, but maybe the antibodies?

I would love it if someone could simplify the thyroid-cortisol connection for me. I've tried to learn but then my head just decides it wants to fog over.

I know the adrenals are involved too, along with sex hormones, I just can't get it all figured out...I used to be smarter than this.

If anyone would care to put it in some kind of simple order? I know I'm asking a lot.

This post was brought on by my stim test coming back in the mail saying "normal", no adrenal insufficiency. So I guess being confused a lot and being in bed a lot is normal? This is crazy.
 

SuzieSam

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Hey, me too! I've read everything, understood it, and forgotten it. I used to be very smart too. Yep, totally confused, stupid, and in bed alot. Dunno if it's really ME or the thyroid/adrenals/hormones...

Stop the thyroid madness. That's a great site that explains it. They explain on that site why 4-point saliva testing is more accurate for our needs, and how to supplement low adrenals.

It's totally not just you that can't think straight. I used to have an IQ of 142. Now I feel about 90.
 

Paralee

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@SuzieSam , yes, and I have the book, but when someone is like me, it needs to be fewer words and less going back and forth. My IQ was pretty good too, won't take a test again, though. Although somehow it is clearing up better for longer periods at a time.
 

SuzieSam

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@Paralee great to hear your brain is clearing up some. I'm with you on the less going back and forth. It's so damn complicated. Trying to think if I read it anywhere simpler, but so much bio-chemistry jargon is thrown around.

Wish I could explain it to you, it's bogged down somewhere in the mud in my skull.
 

drob31

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The way I have understood it is that cells require cortisol in order to access other hormones like thyroid hormone (t3). So if you don't have enough cortisol at the cellular level, the cells won't be able to use adequate amounts of t3.

Of course, I tried to work my way back up the hpa-axis. Why is cortisol low or high or out of sync? The brain is sending incorrect signals because? Certain cytokines are too high maybe. Perhaps because of an autoimmune reaction or a virus/pathogen is causing them to be high? If autoimmune could it be caused by leaky gut, and inflammatory particles like lectins entering the blood stream? Could it be something like Lyme or even EBV?

So why would someone mysteriously end up with an autoimmune condition or EBV? Stress triggered the autoimmune condition or viral reactivation. The weakened immune system or overactive immune system allows it to continue.

So now I think in terms of stopping PEM with pem busting proctol, and inhibiting cytokines like IL-6. I don't have true PEM by the way, but more like a bad form of exersize intolerance.
 

Paralee

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Thanks @drob31 , I'm trying to learn some about the HPA Axis.

I went and got my records today and some more blood tests. My cortisol has gone from 4.7 last summer with a 0.12 Free cortisol LC/MS/MS with a range of 0.07-0.93 to a total cortisol of 24.4 this February. My thyroid's all over the place, too! It was less than 1.00 several months ago but I lowered the dose a little bit (not much) because of that low cortisol and now my TSH is 23.50 uIU/mL (levels 0.45-5.33).
I won't go into other mind bogglers.:thumbdown:

Edit: Don't think there's Lyme, EB or those other things, I was tested-but I know there's a lot of false negatives. I just don't feel like I have them though.

Now.......cytocynes......that may be another story.
 

Float

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Dr Kelly Brogan and others talk about hashis swinging from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid in some people, making it look very like bipolary. I don't agree with everything Kelly talks of but that makes some sense.
 

drob31

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Thanks @drob31 , I'm trying to learn some about the HPA Axis.

I went and got my records today and some more blood tests. My cortisol has gone from 4.7 last summer with a 0.12 Free cortisol LC/MS/MS with a range of 0.07-0.93 to a total cortisol of 24.4 this February. My thyroid's all over the place, too! It was less than 1.00 several months ago but I lowered the dose a little bit (not much) because of that low cortisol and now my TSH is 23.50 uIU/mL (levels 0.45-5.33).
I won't go into other mind bogglers.:thumbdown:

Edit: Don't think there's Lyme, EB or those other things, I was tested-but I know there's a lot of false negatives. I just don't feel like I have them though.

Now.......cytocynes......that may be another story.

The more I learn, the more I learn I dont know.

Are you on thyroid meds currently? They have a huge impact on crh/acth/cortisol and vice versa.

As far as the bipolar swings, there is a huge correlation between mood and thyroid as I've experienced first hand.

@Iritu1021 may be able to provide some insight.
 

Iritu1021

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Hypothyroidism results in limbic system changes that are consistent with depression, which involves an alteration in activity of HPA axis.

It's very hard to normalize hormones if you don't fix limbic system (the part of the brain involved in depression) at the same time as you treat thyroid gland because hypothalamus is part of the limbic system.

The hormones on its own are usually not enough to fix the limbic system once the damage is advanced; you also need to fix abnormalities of ion channels and secondary message systems, induce neuroplasticity with (BDNF), brain-derived neurotrophic factors and regenerate loss of hippocampal volume. How do you do it? In graduated approach by using vitamins, metals, adaptogenic herbs, mood stabilizing agents, and finally antidepressant medications.

Bipolar and thyroid dysfunction are virtually inseparable from each other: they reinforce each other. Unless you treat both, it's very hard to treat either, and in my experience when both problems are severe it can present as CFS and dysautonomia.

Last week I've written a blog post with summary of 7 steps worked for me with getting better:

https://www.chronicfatiguediagnosis...n-health-restoration-in-cfs-and-dysautonomia/
 
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Iritu1021

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I looked at your site. As a newbie it's full on, but I am so grateful for your sharing of the science which I will refer to in future. Thank you ☺
I understand that the website is a bit over the head for most people. When I started writing it I was still figuring things out and "thinking out loud" along the way. I will try at some point in the near future to organize it all together in a more beginner-friendly ebook.
 

Paralee

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@Iritu1021 , I read your first page in the link, thanks for posting it. It fits and it doesn't, but never blow anything off w/o a lot of thought. My thyroid is atrophied, I have no choice, but still a lot of info. Is there a reason there's no #5? Or did I miss something (totally possible).
I was referring more to my cortisol when I used the term bi-polar, but who knows?
 

Iritu1021

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@Iritu1021 , I read your first page in the link, thanks for posting it. It fits and it doesn't, but never blow anything off w/o a lot of thought. My thyroid is atrophied, I have no choice, but still a lot of info. Is there a reason there's no #5? Or did I miss something (totally possible).
I was referring more to my cortisol when I used the term bi-polar, but who knows?
Ah, thanks very much for catching that! I must have lost track of numbers during my editing process.

I think it's hard to separate HPA and HPT as they are both made by the same part of the hypothalamus - parvoventricular nucleus. Pure HPA in my experience is more characteristic of unipolar depression related to stress while in bipolar both axis are involved due to underlying organic disease (as we discussed in the thyroid -glutamate thread, my latest thoughts are the root cause probably involves glutamate which is involved in regulating all the other neurotransmitters as a result).

But if your thyroid is atrophied than of course you need thyroid hormone... but I think the right "goldilocks" T4/T3 balance is crucial for proper glutamatergic function.