Has anyone tried Rich's protocol and had success?

[Avalon]

Hi All,

I note that Riches philosophy is to start slow and go low but also to use supplements that need some form of conversion by the body, in effect the body controls the rate of methylation rather than supply already converted forms of folate and b12 to drive methylation.

Has anyone had success?

 

[Sushi]

Hi All,

I note that Riches philosophy is to start slow and low but also to use supplements that need some form of conversion by the body, in effect the body controls the rate of methylation rather than supply already converted forms of folate and b12 to drive methylation.

Has anyone had success?

There a many threads on this subject. Why not try a google site search--there will be patient reports there. I, for one, improved with Rich's protocol.

Best,
Sushi

 

[Avalon]

There a many threads on this subject. Why not try a google site search--there will be patient reports there. I, for one, improved with Rich's protocol.

Best,
Sushi

Hi Sushi thanks for your reply, It's good to know that you have improved, did you ever try Fredds protocol or did Rich's hit the spot first time?. Were there any initial side effects such as sleep issues, acid reflux etc. I will check out google, this is a good forum.

 

[Sushi]

Hi Sushi thanks for your reply, It's good to know that you have improved, did you ever try Fredds protocol or did Rich's hit the spot first time?. Were there any initial side effects such as sleep issues, acid reflux etc. I will check out google, this is a good forum.

I don't tolerate Methyl B12, so Freddd's protocol was not a good choice for me.

My initial experience with Rich's protocol goes back to 2007 so it is hard to remember particulars. There were initial difficult symptoms and I had to fiddle with doses for quite a while, but I don't remember what those symptoms were.

Sushi

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Sushi I was going to post a question re: Rich's protocol but will put it in this thread since it is already here. I have never done his protocol but have a question re: glutathione. Does he feel that doing methylation supplements therefore allow the body to use or create it's own glutathione or does he recommend also supplementing with glutathione (in a usable form like liposomal or IV's?) Any info would be appreciated!

 

[Sushi]

@Sushi I was going to post a question re: Rich's protocol but will put it in this thread since it is already here. I have never done his protocol but have a question re: glutathione. Does he feel that doing methylation supplements therefore allow the body to use or create it's own glutathione or does he recommend also supplementing with glutathione (in a usable form like liposomal or IV's?) Any info would be appreciated!

He generally felt that by supplying the necessary nutrients to normalize methylation, we would gradually be able to raise our own glutathione levels naturally. I had mine tested (reduced glutathione) both before begining and after a year and, indeed, there was a big increase.

In certain case (and here someone else will have to jump in as I can't remember what cases) he felt that temporary supplementation was could be helpful.

Sushi

 

[Gingergrrl]

He generally felt that by supplying the necessary nutrients to normalize methylation, we would gradually be able to raise our own glutathione levels naturally. I had mine tested (reduced glutathione) both before begining and after a year and, indeed, there was a big increase.

In certain case (and here someone else will have to jump in as I can't remember what cases) he felt that temporary supplementation was could be helpful.

@Sushi Thank you and I wish Rich was still around and miss him even though I joined PR later and never interacted with him. What an amazing soul.

It sounds like from what you remember, that Rich felt supplementing with Glutathione in certain cases was helpful and at least was not harmful. If anyone remembers more about this or can direct me to one of his posts re: how glutathione can be helpful (separate or in addition to methylation) I would really appreciate it.

Thanks again.

 

[Sushi]

@Gingergrrl

Harmful in some cases too. You could probably find the quote from Rich with a google site search. I believe he discussed it several times. I'm one of those who could not tolerate it--then, I don't know about now as I haven't tried it in ages.

Sushi

 

[Johnmac]

I did the Rich protocol 2 years ago.

I was having awful problems with thiol-containing foods, as I was chelating heavy metals Cutler-style at the time. I had been very sick for a year.

The protocol ended this problem in less than a week. There were modest start-up effects - the odd headache & bit of fatigue - for a few days.

The protocol never seemed to do anything else, so I eventually stopped using it (& the thiol problem stayed fixed).

I have recently begun the Freddd protocol. That is much broader in its effects, presumably due to the methyl B12 & other DQ supps - but also harder to control & predict.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Gingergrrl

Harmful in some cases too. You could probably find the quote from Rich with a google site search. I believe he discussed it several times. I'm one of those who could not tolerate it--then, I don't know about now as I haven't tried it in ages.

Sushi

@Sushi Thanks and I will try again to find it in a Google site search. I've been taking liposomal glutathione for months but did not notice anything-- good or bad.

I stopped while in the hospital and so far have not restarted. It is very expensive and not sure if it is worth the money.

I still have not restarted the methyl B-12 shots yet either b/c I started Midodrine and hate starting two things at once. But I am planning to restart at 1 mg and not the crazy high amount I did last time!

I need to read some of Rich's posts b/c they sound like a sensible plan. Two doctors have suggested IV glutathione for me but so far I have declined b/c it scares me!

When you said you couldn't tolerate it, was that the IV or another form?

 

[Sushi]

When you said you couldn't tolerate it, was that the IV or another form?

I couldn't tolerate IV and had trouble with everything but a very tiny dose when I nebulized it.

Sushi

 

[Sherpa]

I am like you. Very sensitive. I made it up to 400mcg methylfolate and it worked but I got increased reflux and insomnia. I am guessing that Freddd's protocol and dose levels is 'too many methyl groups, too fast' for me.

@Avalon I was in rock bottom, terrible condition 3 years ago I took liposomal glutathione for several months. The first dose made my body vibrate with joy and nourishment...I could feel the difference. I was obviously depleted. Subsequent doses had less visceral effect..but seemed helpful. I would dissolve a packet in a water bottle and do yoga every morning while drinking it. It helped heal me. I did not find anything harmful about it, rather the opposite.

 

[Alea Ishikawa]

@Avalon - There is an older poll here. Click on "View Results." Rich updated his protocol about a month before he passed away in 2012.

Also a poll on Freddd's protocol here. Freddd updated his protocol since then to include various co-factors, etc.


There were folks who did both Rich's and Freddd's protocol, as well as various other supplements and treatments. Freddd's protocol tends toward the extremely active (end product) versions of folate and B12, so I would say it would likely be a better bet for effectiveness, but you are at a much higher risk for overmethylating and also hypokalemia, which can potentially be fatal.


Genetics can be a factor on which supplements you take. If I could do it all over again, I would probably do a 23andme test to save money on determining which supplements are best for me. I've spent hundreds on supps, but genetic testing is only $99. It can help guide your treatment.

Alternatively, you can just try basic "low and slow" methylation. It depends on how deep you want to get.

 

[Sherpa]

Is there a thread that spells out a modern, simplified version of Rich's protocol with the cheapest available supplements.

The Neurological vitamin he recommends no longer exists, Yasko's supplements & Metagenics & Perque are expen$ive / private label supplements I aim to avoid if equivalent alternatives exist.

Is there an "iHerb" version of it anywhere?

 

[xrunner]

Hi All,

I note that Riches philosophy is to start slow and go low but also to use supplements that need some form of conversion by the body, in effect the body controls the rate of methylation rather than supply already converted forms of folate and b12 to drive methylation.

Has anyone had success?

Hi @Avalon

Rich's approach is the only one to have been tested on patients albeit through a small study as such it's possibly the only methylation approach that I wouldn't define as a philosophy. You see, he didn't sell expensive supplements nor complicated tests or consultations and his interest not being commercial was directed at demystifying methylation and make it available in all its simplicity to as many PWMEs as possible.

Regarding your question about success, in the link you can have a look at the results of the study which speaks for itself
http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf
In my own case, Rich's SMP did just what it did in that study, it raised glutathione pretty quickly but it may take up to a year to normalise the overall methylation process.
The only problem I had with the protocol was the multi he suggested (the Yasko multi) which I replaced with a cheaper multimineral only because I was sensitive to some of the nutrients and vitamins in the original one. It still worked fine for me.

The one thing I learnt is that it is important to test, I mean functionally test (rather than testing genes/SNps), your methylation before and after.
That is either through the methylation panel suggested by Rich or at least those parameters that can tell you whether methylation is being normalised.
This is because from the tests you may find that your glutathione is now OK and methylation is fixed but your overall health still has problems.
This information is crucial because it tells you that there are other things that are contributing to your illness and you have to address those separately rather than infer that the protocol isn't working or isn't doing much.

This is how Rich himself put it:
"Even though the methylation cycle function can be brought closer to normal and glutathione can be raised in most PWMEs wth methylation treatment, the etiologies and accumulated toxins and/or pathogens in most cases will need to be treated directly and specifically as well. The particular ones differ from one case to another, but the possibilities of which I'm currently aware, based on experience with cases, are as follows: Lyme disease and coinfections; biotoxin illness, especially due to water-damage in buildings; high body burdens of toxic metals, especially mercury; entrenched viral and possibly retroviral infections that are able to hide from the immune system, such as by producing nagalase; HPU (hemopyrolactamuria, also called KPU or kryptopyroluria); serious gut dysbiosis; and deficiencies of essential nutrients."

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methylation-study-and-c4a.14633/

Best wishes.

 

[Sherpa]

@xrunner what multi-mineral did you use as an alternative to Rich / Yasko's multi??

 

[xrunner]

@Sherpa at the time I was using Ortho Molecular reacted multimin but in my opinion any will do.

 

[Avalon]

Too tired at minute to fully respond but a quote from Rich:

Rich's quote "There seem to be more and more people who are exhibiting effects of overdriving the methylation cycle from taking high dosages of methylfolate and methyl B12 together. I do not recommend this approach."

 

[Sushi]

Is there a thread that spells out a modern, simplified version of Rich's protocol with the cheapest available supplements.

The Neurological vitamin he recommends no longer exists, Yasko's supplements & Metagenics & Perque are expen$ive / private label supplements I aim to avoid if equivalent alternatives exist.

Is there an "iHerb" version of it anywhere?

A revision note in Rich's protocol:

As of Sept/Oct 2013, Neurological Health Formula was discontinued, and replaced with:
ALL-IN-ONE Multi Vitamin/Mineral (120 caps Holistic Health

 

[Avalon]

I am like you. Very sensitive. I made it up to 400mcg methylfolate and it worked but I got increased reflux and insomnia. I am guessing that Freddd's protocol and dose levels is 'too many methyl groups, too fast' for me.

@Avalon I was in rock bottom, terrible condition 3 years ago I took liposomal glutathione for several months. The first dose made my body vibrate with joy and nourishment...I could feel the difference. I was obviously depleted. Subsequent doses had less visceral effect..but seemed helpful. I would dissolve a packet in a water bottle and do yoga every morning while drinking it. It helped heal me. I did not find anything harmful about it, rather the opposite.

@Sherpa, thanks for the interesting info, I may look at that, but I need to find a basic protocol that is not too expensive. I have in the past spent many thousands on potions, supplements etc, it's very easy to end up taking dozens of supplements. I realised that you end up chasing your tale, as one supplement causes imbalance, so you take another supplement to counteract and so it goes on. I had multiple wake ups last night and they are caused by Mfolate taken earlier that day and possible play of Betaine HCL as I took that at the evening meal. My REM sleep was disrupted quite a bit and I feel very heady this morning.