Gupta theory on amygdala overreacting...can someone help explain why some do or don't end up with it

[Wendy B.]

Hi there.

I had attempted to begin training for Gupta about five years ago for CFS, but at the time could not adequately distract myself to benefit. I am looking into brain retraining again after seeing a video of Gupta's pop up in my Facebook feed. This is looking promising to me. Question though...Im still unclear after the video why it is that after experiencing a stressful state (such as through an infection, an emotionally challenging time, etc), that some folks' amygdala's react in such a hyperactivated way and begin the chronic loop of hyperactived nervous and immune response (fight or flight). I get that what ends up happening is that the amygdala and insula are essentially stuck in fight/flight and reacting to anything that reminds the brain of a threat to survival is what keeps this hyperactivation going (ie - its self perpetuating without brain retraining). But what Im not clear on is *why* some of us react to common (even if substantial) stress in a seriously hyperactive way, while other folks might simply have a more normal response to stress (ie - the sympathetic NS kicks in for a while, then eventually parasympathetic kicks back in again). I could certainly see how something like a vaccine, which provides a seemingly unnatural chronic exposure to a potential threat to survival could set the amygdala in overdrive, or even how toxic chemicals we did not evolve with could cause kindling, but I don't get how simply getting a virus and having some strong emotional stress going on would cause the wisdom of our bodies to go so overreactive as to set us in chronic activation state. Oh and I get how genetics and the way we were raised play a role...I get that. But still, im not quite getting how a simple infection and some emotional stress would cause our body/brain wisdom to so thoroughly be unwise in its hyperactivation.

Thanks for any help on this!

 

[mattie]

Gupta is a fraud. He claims his program is effective for 80-85% of patients and even cures ME in some cases or "give significant improvements along the road to full recovery".
You can hear him say these exact words in one of his free youtube videos.

His theory and treatment plan are pseudoscience at best. Same goes for the lightning process, mickel therapy, reverse therapy, DNRS, CBT, GET.
All scams to profit from the chronically ill.

And as always: if it did not work for you then you did not work the program hard enough.

These threads may be of interest:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...-gupta-programme-optimum-health-clinic.48952/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...-with-scamming-people-with-cfs-so-much.44841/

 

[Diwi9]

This is going to be a rocky explanation from me, and partially because I do not buy-in to the over-activation idea or Gupta...however, here I go:

If you look at some of the research going on and meld some of the research together, there is indication that the immune system has been triggered (perhaps by chronic infection or autoimmunity -- this is still being worked out). The immune activity appears to be related to neuroinflammation, and neuroinflammation that is localized to specific regions of the brain (thalamus, hippocampus, cingulate, etc.). My guess is that when these sensitive areas of the brain are stimulated, they are already comprised because of inflammation...sorta like when you hit a bruise on your arm and it hurts extra bad.

While I don't believe Gupta's entrepreneurial claims can cure ME/CFS, I can believe that some people may obtain some symptom relief...maybe especially those in the mild category...especially during periods of sensory overload.

For more information, follow Mark Davis' immunological work and Jarred Younger's work on neuroinflammation. You can find recent videos on OMF's YouTube and The Younger Lab's YouTube channels.

 

[Wendy B.]

Hmm Im still trying to understand - from Gupta's point of view. Here's the video im referring to (below)...If i gather right, it's a sort of "neuro-ptsd" that occurs from a combo of emotional and physical trauma, such as getting a flu or maybe epstein barr virus during college finals when you weren't eating well - and as a precipitating factor maybe you weren't raised with strong resilience. In the evolution scenario, this type of stress would pale in comparison to getting chased by a saber tooth tiger while having a virus, and the whole lot of primitive humanity would have all got CFS from a virus coupled with a chase from a ST tiger, and died from the next predator who ran faster than our tired asses could. These type of "insults" wern't considered traumas back then, just simply a day in the life.

I mean I get the part how after "trauma" subsequent similar triggers tell the brain, "Hey our life is at stake again, and this body process, symptom, food, action, exercise or whatever is very much like the original one that threatened your life, so im going to set the nervous system and immune systems on extra super duper over-defended high alert!" He describes the reaction as perfectly evolutionary-based (we evolved more than anything to *survive*, more than to thrive, or be healthy, or happy). I get this. What Im not getting is specifically why, from his point of view, in the body's evolutionary wisdom, the body views what could have been common insults we would have evolved with (emotional stresses like a saber tooth tiger chasing you plus getting your winter flu or epstein barr virus, etc) as worthy of an unwise hyper activated sympathetic nervous or immune system response to set off the system.

I can understand from his paradigm, how those today who get ill from insults we didnt' evolve with (such as exposure to pesticides, vaccines, engine cleaning fluid, etc) would have an un-wise ("over defended" state he calls it - or a hyper activated state). But what im not getting - from *Gupta's* point of view (not a personal point of view) is why, emotional stress + virus would set off hyperactivation to begin with. Surely primitive people encountered this all the time, woudln't they have? He probably explains this in some of his literature, I just haven't gotten there yet.
https://www.facebook.com/guptaprogram/videos/274944156452665/

 

[Wendy B.]

This is going to be a rocky explanation from me, and partially because I do not buy-in to the over-activation idea or Gupta...however, here I go:

If you look at some of the research going on and meld some of the research together, there is indication that the immune system has been triggered (perhaps by chronic infection or autoimmunity -- this is still being worked out). The immune activity appears to be related to neuroinflammation, and neuroinflammation that is localized to specific regions of the brain (thalamus, hippocampus, cingulate, etc.). My guess is that when these sensitive areas of the brain are stimulated, they are already comprised because of inflammation...sorta like when you hit a bruise on your arm and it hurts extra bad.

While I don't believe Gupta's entrepreneurial claims can cure ME/CFS, I can believe that some people may obtain some symptom relief...maybe especially those in the mild category...especially during periods of sensory overload.

For more information, follow Mark Davis' immunological work and Jarred Younger's work on neuroinflammation. You can find recent videos on OMF's YouTube and The Younger Lab's YouTube channels.

Thanks. I'll try watching these. Hmm so in this scenario, a pre-existing chronic infection or autoimmune state would preciptate the cfs phenomena of the over-defended state. So is resolution of the chronic infection or autoimmune condition necessary for recovery in the gupta paradigm? Also, why the chronic infection, and why the autoimmune response? Trying to get this from a gupta perspective

 

[Diwi9]

Thanks. I'll try watching these. Hmm so in this scenario, a pre-existing chronic infection or autoimmune state would preciptate the cfs phenomena of the over-defended state. So is resolution of the chronic infection or autoimmune condition necessary for recovery in the gupta paradigm? Also, why the chronic infection, and why the autoimmune response? Trying to get this from a gupta perspective

Gupta is a controversial topic. He claims ME/CFS is a biological illness, that can be treated through psychological means. ME/CFS has a long history of being attempted to treated psychologically ever since the CDC came up with "CFS" and diluted the condition with loose diagnostic criteria. It allows ME, a biological illness, to be confounded with psychological issues like "burnout." There are other programs similar to Gupta, including DNRS, that supposedly teach methods to essentially hijack neuronal processes.

The mechanism behind ME/CFS is unknown. There is hard science being performed to root out the mechanisms involved. What I provided above is hypothetical based on the current science being pursued. Gupta does not teach that, but if he follows the science, he may begin to morph his theory so that it follows the research. Gupta leans on the ideas that come from anxiety and PTSD research, and then translates it to ME/CFS. Basically, neuronal networks that fire together, wire together...and the more they are relied on, the stronger the networks get. Again, Gupta basically relies on ME/CFS as a form of "burnout" as the "fight or flight" networks involving the amygdala are on overdrive, thus dysfunctional in operation.

Current research would not suggest that the areas of the brain impacted by ME/CFS mechanism are in an over-defended state through over-use/reliance. Rather, they are looking at why the immune system is behaving like it is fighting an infection or though autoimmunity. If you follow Ron Davis/Naviaux/Phair/Armstrong/Hanson/Lipkin/Horng/Lights, there is evidence of metabolomic dysfunction in energy production functions of cells. The big question is whether this dysfunction is caused by ongoing infection, or some other mechanism (genetic/epi-genetic) that keeps the body in an illness state post-infection/-precipitating event.

 

[ukxmrv]

There is no autoimmune or pre-existing chronic infection from a Gupta perspective - that is why you are struggling to put things together.

If you look closely at his work you will find that there is no evidence that the amygdala is involved in CFS or any other disease. It's just a lot of convenient wacky theories thrown together but without the evidence to show even the slightest bit of scientific proof.

So, it's not going to make sense when you try to weld what the current medical and scientific theories of CFS to the Gupta nonsense.

 

[jesse's mom]

And as always: if it did not work for you then you did not work the program hard enough.

Yep, once again blame the patient for not getting well...
Heard it a million times.

 

[I AM]

I wonder if Gupta even had ME CFS...

 

[matt321]

Perhaps reading “the body keeps the score”, “the intelligent body” or anything Gabor Mate can help answer your question like it has for those of that have built a recovery. I myself and other recovered people view Guptas work as a useful tool to compliment our other work.

I think most people don’t quite understand the risk/reward balance assessment of treatment methods. Things like yoga (not the exercise), Vipassana, NLP, LP, EMDR are all close to zero risk and potentially offer high reward.

 

[rottingmetal]

Gupta only cares about your money. If you request a refund, they don’t do a normal refund through paypal because of the new policy where the seller doesn’t get their transaction fees back when they do a refund. Now they just send you the money and stick you with the fees. If they actually cared about helping people I think they would do things the right way like a normal business! especially with how much they charge for the program! And he just updated the program and is charging more money to access it. Should be pretty obvious.