Gulf war illness, chronic fatigue syndrome distinct illnesses, Georgetown study suggests

[Abrin]

Hopefully no one has posted this already and I didn't see it.

A brain imaging study of veterans with Gulf War illness (GWI) and patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) (sometimes called myalgic encephalomyelitis), has shown that the two illnesses produce distinctly different, abnormal patterns of brain activity after moderate exercise. The result of the Georgetown University Medical Center study suggests that GWI and CFS are distinct illnesses, an outcome that could affect the treatment of veterans with Gulf War illness.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200810103300.htm

 

[pattismith]

"Veterans with GWI showed a decrease in brain activity in the periaqueductal gray, a pain processing region within the brainstem, and in the cerebellum, a part of the brain responsible for fine motor control, cognition, pain, and emotion.

On the other hand, patients with CFS showed increased activity in the periaqueductal gray and in parts of the cerebral cortex related to maintaining vigilance and attention. In healthy subjects, these areas of the brain had no changes at all."

They still have a common affected brain area in the brainstem, and a common neuroinflammation.

Interesting finding!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

has shown that the two illnesses produce distinctly different, abnormal patterns of brain activity after moderate exercise.

Thats is a huge discovery! And maybe its good news for us.

But we are sharing a Brain Stem problem.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Wondering about: the increased vigilence and attention findings for CFS patients, lacking in the GWI patients.

Could this be part of the Sickness Behavior Response? Do we know what tissue that resides in?

But it seems likely GWI folks: would also have Sickness Behaviors, triggered...

 

[ljimbo423]

ME/CFS researcher Jarred Younger has found neuro-inflammation in ME/CFS verses controls and thinks the cause of Fibromyalgia is also neuro-inflammation. The different symptoms he thinks are caused by the different areas of the brain being affected by neuro-inflammation.

I think it's very possible that the same thing is happening with GWI. I think it likely has the same core issue causing neuro-inflammation but affecting the brain in a different way.

Maybe there is a leaky Blood Brain Barrier (BBB) in all of these illnesses (something that I think Jarred Younger has suggested) and depending on "where" the BBB is compromised or "leaky", determines the presentation of different symptoms.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Maybe there is a leaky Blood Brain Barrier (BBB) in all of these illnesses (something that I think Jarred Younger has suggested) and depending on "where" the BBB is compromised or "leaky", determines the presentation of different symptoms.

Thats certainly likely.

Given the collagen breakdown- weakening and increased permeability in both the gut and the BBB- is likely.

Have they teased out anything genetic with this 35% that got: GWI?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I think it's very possible that the same thing is happening with GWI. I think it likely has the same core issue causing neuro-inflammation but affecting the brain in a different way.

Here: they discuss studies finding that alleles in the HLA axis- in GWI...victims- may indicate genetic involvement.

https://www.research.va.gov/currents/1116-3.cfm

"Our working hypothesis is that, when exposed to factors such as vaccines, chemical exposures, and stress, genetically vulnerable Veterans exhibit widespread synchronicity anomalies that contribute to diverse problems included under the NCM, pain, and fatigue domains," the researchers write in that study. "Conversely, the presence of protective HLA alleles would prevent these anomalies."

Wonder what our HLA alleles are: up to.

 

[ljimbo423]

Here: they discuss studies finding that alleles in the HLA axis- in GWI...victims- may indicate genetic involvement.

A genetic component is very possible in some with GWI. My feeling though, is there probably doesn't need to be one if they were bombarded with enough toxins, antibiotics and god knows what else. In addition to the incredible stress of war.

 

[valentinelynx]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this thread. Nancy Klimas has also found distinct differences between GWI and ME/CFS, discussed in this blog post in Health Rising. Here's a quote:

"Dr. Klimas’s studies have revealed, however, that despite their surface similarities, underneath the hood the two diseases are quite different. Immune networking studies indicated that the GWI patients’ immune systems have leapt to their defense and exhibit a kind of hyperactive, hyper-connected state, while the ME/CFS patients’ immune systems headed in the opposite direction; they’re characterized by eroded/impaired immune networks – they look depleted, overwhelmed and exhausted."​

 

[ljimbo423]

"Dr. Klimas’s studies have revealed, however, that despite their surface similarities, underneath the hood the two diseases are quite different. Immune networking studies indicated that the GWI patients’ immune systems have leapt to their defense and exhibit a kind of hyperactive, hyper-connected state, while the ME/CFS patients’ immune systems headed in the opposite direction; they’re characterized by eroded/impaired immune networks – they look depleted, overwhelmed and exhausted."

With much respect for the work Nancy Klimas does. There are many of us here that haven't had a cold or a flu in years, in some cases like myself, over a decade, maybe as much as 15-20 years.

That suggests to me that at least a subset of us with ME/CFS have a hyperactive immune system. I think the further research gets with GWI and ME/CFS, the more similarities will be found.

 

[percyval577]

I agree with @ljimbo423, the Klimas finding may well reflect any daytime or maybe any seasonal effect, if it is not technically skewed, somewhere.

If I recall rightly, it looks more that the immune system also in CFS is overactive, although more than tendencies are not able to be established, so far. It might be secondary effects.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

There are many of us here that haven't had a cold or a flu in years, in some cases like myself, over a decade, maybe as much as 15-20 years.

Some of us: are quite isolated....we have far less contact with exterior germs. I have gotten colds and flus- myself- in some past years when I was still working and required to go out to the meeting with the coworkers- come back, three days I'm VERY SICK.

And very mad- they exposed me to their filthy germs, so proud of coming to meeting sick. Me with this compromised system.

I get a severe gastro-flu. And it never gets: identified, nope, in my episode of ER, they couldn't even get a urine sample and never resolve- or bother to- what am I sick with. I literally: after 5 hours- walked out of my starring role.

 

[valentinelynx]

With much respect for the work Nancy Klimas does. There are many of us here that haven't had a cold or a flu in years, in some cases like myself, over a decade, maybe as much as 15-20 years.

That suggests to me that at least a subset of us with ME/CFS have a hyperactive immune system. I think the further research gets with GWI and ME/CFS, the more similarities will be found.

My immune system is measurably depressed with low IgG, low B cells, low NK cell number and function. Yet I haven't experience cold or flu symptoms for over a decade if not longer. Dr Kaufman opined that he had seen this in HIV patients as well and perhaps the explanation is that we do get infected with the viruses, but our immune systems don't react so we don't feel symptomatic. The symptoms of upper respiratory viruses are largely from the immune reaction to the viruses.

 

[ljimbo423]

Dr Kaufman opined that he had seen this in HIV patients as well and perhaps the explanation is that we do get infected with the viruses, but our immune systems don't react so we don't feel symptomatic.

If the immune system didn't react to a viral infection, there wouldn't be anything to stop the virus from multiplying out of control and seriously damaging our bodies and nothing to put it in remission or stop it. It wouldn't ever go away.

I think many of us have parts of our immune systems that are under-functioning but our anti-viral immunity seems to be going strong in a lot of us.