Graves' Disease and TH1/TH2 imbalance

[OverTheHills]

Hi all
I wonder if any of you science-types have an opinion about this.

Background: I've had ME for 7 years and have had some partial remission time, and a seasonally fluctuating pattern (best in spring worst in winter). I have had a long history of allergies (and some new ones since), endometriosis (considered by some to be an autoimmune disease).

I know there is a theory about ME causing th1 suppression and th2 dominance, and have been angling for years to get an appointment with an immunologist so I can talk about the wierd seasonal pattern of my ME, discuss th1/th2, maybe try immunovir.

Now I have an appointment this week (tomorrow in fact) but ironically in the last couple of months I have suddenly developed Graves' disease (autoimmune hyperthyroid). According to marco's very excellent thread http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...-and-Heterogeneity-in-ME-CFS&highlight=immune this is an indication of TH1 dominance not TH2.

I'm not all that hopeful about the appointment - too many years of being put in the "too hard basket" by any number of doctors, so I thought I'd ask you guys here what you make of this. I plan to get tested for retroviruses next year (and keeping my fingers crossed) but if I can get something to help in the medeium term that would be great.

OTH

Ps Having hyperthyroid and ME is rather like having put your foot down hard on both accelerator and brake pedals, You don't go anywhere, but it puts a very big strain on the engine. I'm hoping I can make a 9.30 appt (worst time) by public transport and make sense through hyperthyroid intensity/irritability. Wish me luck!

 

[liverock]

I think there is a danger in assuming that when ME/CFS causes
" TH1 immune suppression" as it is usually stated, it means a complete shut down of the TH1 arm of the immune system.

Depending on a host of factors including viral load, length of time of illness and whether a patient is consuming food factors and supplements that can strengthen the TH1 arm, will determine how effective it will be.

 

[Impish]

Hi all
I wonder if any of you science-types have an opinion about this.

Background: I've had ME for 7 years and have had some partial remission time, and a seasonally fluctuating pattern (best in spring worst in winter). I have had a long history of allergies (and some new ones since), endometriosis (considered by some to be an autoimmune disease).

I know there is a theory about ME causing th1 suppression and th2 dominance, and have been angling for years to get an appointment with an immunologist so I can talk about the wierd seasonal pattern of my ME, discuss th1/th2, maybe try immunovir.

Now I have an appointment this week (tomorrow in fact) but ironically in the last couple of months I have suddenly developed Graves' disease (autoimmune hyperthyroid). According to marco's very excellent thread http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...-and-Heterogeneity-in-ME-CFS&highlight=immune this is an indication of TH1 dominance not TH2.

I'm not all that hopeful about the appointment - too many years of being put in the "too hard basket" by any number of doctors, so I thought I'd ask you guys here what you make of this. I plan to get tested for retroviruses next year (and keeping my fingers crossed) but if I can get something to help in the medeium term that would be great.

OTH

Ps Having hyperthyroid and ME is rather like having put your foot down hard on both accelerator and brake pedals, You don't go anywhere, but it puts a very big strain on the engine. I'm hoping I can make a 9.30 appt (worst time) by public transport and make sense through hyperthyroid intensity/irritability. Wish me luck!

Graves disease seems to be generally regarded as a TH2 dominant disease http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=NIM2004011004209

Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis is TH1.

This makes the whole thing consistent with your observations. If Marco said Graves disease is TH1 somewhere (I didn't specifically notice that but I only glanced) than they were probably wrong.

 

[OverTheHills]

Hi Impish

Thanks for the link to that very relevant paper.Marco mentioned a general rule that organ specific autoimmune disease tends to be TH1 - that info must be out of date or Graves' disease is an exception.

Thanks for your help - the endocrinologist wasn't comfortable with the whole idea of ME/ immunomodulation and says she will do some research before the next appointment but is already hinting she may refer me on to someone else. But at least I felt more confident when talking about TH1/TH2 shift in ME.

OTH

 

[OverTheHills]

Hyper & allergic ! (with maximum emoticons)

I'm not doing too well with my new friend Graves Disease aka hyperthyroid. I am allergic to both hyperthyroid meds - and allergies don't help my ME at all.:Retro mad: I've tried lots of antihistamines to supress other allergies and they seem to make me feel ill or incredibly sleepy (more sleep would be good but 14-16 hours a day, not so much):sleepy:

Also I think I may get the "rare" side effect of bone marrow suppression :mask:because when I took the tablets I got a killer sore throat for 7 days (unheard of for me pre- or post - ME) and then it finally turned into a cold. Of course that could just be coincidence......

Anyway the endo says there aren't any more drugs to try, its Radioactive Iodine time to destroy the thyroid (and/ or turn me into spiderman). I'm worried about this:

a) its irreversible - going by what wikipedia says a lot of people can recover from Graves after a couple of years antithyroid treatment (which I can't tolerate), but I'll most likely be on replacement thyroid forever (80% go hypo after the procedure) :worried:

b) what happens if I have (allergy) problems with the thyroid supplements?? :headache:

c) perhaps if I'd managed to get immunomodulation treatment I might not have got this autoimmune disease in the first place or that would help it go away.:sad:

Any thoughts from anyone would be helpful. I haven't really got anyone to discuss the nitty-gritty with and of course, my endo is not very ME-aware

Thanks all

OTH:sofa:

and thanks to my little emoty-friends. I used to think they were stupid. Now I think they help sometimes.