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Gluten Challenge

antares4141

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Truth or consequences, nm
Its so tough sometimes to pin down- the culprit.

Something I am noticing here, is there is a digestive cycle..and if I blow it and just go munch on some Naan, at 11:30.....I can then have IBS problems..... I take some digestive tea after dinner and need to not eat anything else after that.

Or was that the brocolli...two servings in one day- flee brocolli. Some is going bad in the fridge, now.
Not always easy to restrict food 6 hours before bed but I try to do that also. Then don't eat till roughly noon the next day.
I do lot's of cruciferous vegis, and try to juice carrots apples celery, lime or lemon, once or twice a week.
 

BeADocToGoTo1

Senior Member
Messages
536
...It runs around 130 2 hours after a meal maybe on average.

I check it during mini crashes (death naps after meals) sometimes. Usually around 130.

... My resting heart rate is higher now, still have the tachycardia, and lower bp during crashes. But all my veins in my forearms show now where they never did before. And my feet and hands get cold very easily where as it doesn't with others in similar situations.

So I try to stay away from fats like butter, and oils. Still eat red meat and drink milk which I suspect I react to occasionally. Don't eat cheese that much. Try to do greak yogurt every now and then.

.. Eat lot's of fruit, and more complex carbs like oatmeal, potato's, rice.
...I have no muscle mass at all. So I try to eat beans in place of the meat as much as I can stand.

A few thoughts. I used to get crashes post meal too. In my case a lot of it was due to the spike in glucose and insulin. Perhaps experiment with different meals and see how much glucose spikes and whether you get that post-meal crash. Things like milk, french fries, oatmeal, potato rice are all elements to avoid if you don't want glucose and subsequent insulin spikes. Fruit should be whole only, in moderation and never liquid, processed, canned, dried, etc. It is all sugar to the body. Many legumes/beans are also high in starch and can cause blood sugar spikes. They are also tough to digest and depending on the preparation can have anti-nutrients which can add to a post meal issue.

Do you have reflux issues? Checked for SIBO and Candida overgrowth as these can linger far longer after changing diet? Been checked for EPI? Have you completed any metabolite and nutritional testing such as Genova Diagnostics FMV, Great Plains Lab Organic Acid Test or Spectracell? Any comprehensive stool tests completed to check for e.g. malabsorption, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, and microbiome issues, which will also cause nutritional deficiencies and systemic inflammation.

What happens if you just eat a big salad with nuts, seeds, avocado, generous olive oil, selection of non-starch vegetables and some protein like chicken or sardines? Do you get a similar post-meal crash? Look into primal meals. Check out Mark Sisson's website for more info.

Cold feet and hands of course can have many causes, but thyroid is something to thoroughly check, including:
  • free T4
  • free T3
  • reverse T3
  • TPOAb antibodies (to exclude Hashimoto autoimmune)
  • TgAb antibodies (to exclude Hashimoto autoimmune)
  • TSH
Are you able to do some small weights or resistant band exercises to build muscle? Getting enough amino acids? My muscles were cannibalized for amino acids to keep the lights on since I was not absorbing enough. Supplementing with amino acid supplement for a while helped. Eating enough healthy fats?

Regarding the heart rhythm issue, micronutrient deficiencies were the cause in my case even though my cardiologist was talking pace maker and ablation. Malabsorption caused micronutrient deficiencies, which in turn caused issues with metabolic pathways and mitochondrial functioning, and heart and lung issues. For the heart you could look into taking a mitochondria supplement cocktail including CoQ10 (amazing!), B1, B2 vitamins, magnesium, creatine, and L-Carnitine.
 

antares4141

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Truth or consequences, nm
no reflux

Don't know about sibo or candida, never tested.

What is EPI?

Haven't done any of the testing you asked about.

Any exercise I get is restricted to necessary household projects and chores.

I eat lots of nuts. And hamburger. Lots of fat in those.

I suspect the nuts sometimes might be driving some of my post meal crashes.

I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out what drives a crash cause there are just too many confounding variables, and I never seemed to make any progress doing this.

A lot of the test's you mentioned I am not familiar with but my PCP I'm sure wouldn't do any of them.

Guessing I would have to see a naturopath or alternative practitioner and it wouldn't be covered by insurance?

You mentioned a lot of things.
It would be nice if Main stream dr's at least on a subset of the population did all of these things you mentioned and anything you might have missed and if they hit on something it would help narrow the focus for the rest of us.

I appreciate all the suggestions. If I ever find a dr willing todo these types of test's I'm going to come back to this post and run them by him or her.
 

BeADocToGoTo1

Senior Member
Messages
536
no reflux

Don't know about sibo or candida, never tested.

What is EPI?

Haven't done any of the testing you asked about.

Any exercise I get is restricted to necessary household projects and chores.

I eat lots of nuts. And hamburger. Lots of fat in those.

I suspect the nuts sometimes might be driving some of my post meal crashes.

I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out what drives a crash cause there are just too many confounding variables, and I never seemed to make any progress doing this.

A lot of the test's you mentioned I am not familiar with but my PCP I'm sure wouldn't do any of them.

Guessing I would have to see a naturopath or alternative practitioner and it wouldn't be covered by insurance?

You mentioned a lot of things.
It would be nice if Main stream dr's at least on a subset of the population did all of these things you mentioned and anything you might have missed and if they hit on something it would help narrow the focus for the rest of us.

I appreciate all the suggestions. If I ever find a dr willing todo these types of test's I'm going to come back to this post and run them by him or her.

I had to learn all this the hard way and it took many years of suffering, experimenting and research. So many of your symptoms I had, hence my questions on things to rule out. It sounds like there are a few important possible culprits to look into.

Whenever you have many, seemingly unrelated, symptoms that are difficult to diagnose it is important to look into nutrient deficiencies, malabsorption and underlying root causes.

This thread has a lot of info on SIBO, Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency (EPI), Candida overgrowth, reflux, malabsorption issues:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...y-epi-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-cfs.62997/

Here is another link with a lot of info:

https://www.healthrising.org/forums...e-exocrine-pancreatic-insufficiency-epi.6308/

There are a number of tests I list below that a PCP will be able to do and should be covered under insurance, e.g. 24 hour fat and elastase stool tests, blood sugar tests, trypsin, comprehensive metabolic profile (CMP), liver, pancreas and gallbladder function. The MRI with MRCP would also be through a gastro or PCP, but needs to be thoroughly checked with insurance due to the price. Others can be done through an experienced functional/integrative medicine doctor.

Doctors sadly often overlook all this. Checking for nutrient deficiencies or any malabsorption issues including pancreas function, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI), small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), liver function, Candida yeast overgrowth, gallbladder function, stomach acid strength, Crohn's, food sensitivities, Celiac. Tests such as Genova Diagnostics FMV or Great Plains Lab Organic Acid Test (OAT) are great for an overview.

Tests to Consider
  • Stool test pancreatic elastase
  • Blood test fasting trypsin (to see if you produce enough enzyme for protein breakdown)
  • Comprehensive Stool test for parasites, pathogenes, dysbiosis. E.g. Genova Diagnostics - Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis 2.0 with Parasitology (microbiome dysbiosis indicators), Fecal Fat Distribution (checks if you have issues with different types of fat intake and digestion), Elastase (for EPI, pancreas enzyme marker)and Chymotrypsin (for EPI, pancreas enzyme marker). Doctor's Data has similar tests.
  • Stool test chymotrypsin (similar to, but not as accurate as elastase)
  • Intestinal permeability. Intestinal permeability (a.k.a. leaky gut) is something that your Gastro can also test for. The one I did was: Cyrex Laboratories - Intestinal Antigenic Permeability Screen. It measures intestinal permeability to large molecules, which can cause autoimmune reactions, inflammation, food sensitivities, malabsorption, etc.
  • Gallbladder function. Yet another element that is important in breaking down food and thus any gallbladder issues can cause malabsorption.
  • SIBO and Candida overgrowth. With SIBO, both methane and hydrogen ones should be tested and tackled. Multi-pronged approach is needed as just antibiotics is not enough. A breath test for SIBO and something such as Genova FMV or Great Plains Lab Organic Acid Test (OAT) can be helpful here.
  • Nutrient level and Organic Acid testing such as Genova FMV or Great Plains Lab Organic Acid Test (OAT)
  • Fasting blood sugar tests: e.g. HbA1c, triglycerides, c-peptide, insulin, ketones, glucose
  • Lactose intolerance: Have you tried dairy free for 4-6 weeks? Does it help if you add lactase pills with anything dairy?
  • Food sensitivities: Any food allergy and sensitivity tests completed? What about gluten sensitivity tests?
  • MRI of the abdomen with MRCP with contrast: It gives a 3D picture of the gallbladder and high resolution liver, pancreas, gallbladder, ducts, stomach intestines. Amazing test.
  • Stomach acid: Is your pH low enough to start digesting food? If it is too high this will exacerbate any SIBO, candida overgrowths, and malabsorption. Are you taking antacids or PPI as these only cover symptoms, do nothing about root cause, and can make things much worse. Have you tried the following simple selftest:

    A simple unscientific test to approximate acid level is by drinking a quarter teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) mixed in a glass of water on an empty stomach in the morning. This creates bubbles within two to three minutes when mixed with the hydrochloric acid in your stomach. If after five minutes nothing happens, there is a very good chance the pH of your stomach acid is too high (i.e., low stomach acid).
Your symptoms

A little side note some of your symptoms.
  • On reflux. I had silent reflux, which means you do not have the classic heartburn feel but stomach acid does come up into the esophagus, especially at night when lying horizontally. The salivation, lump in throat, overly sensitive esophagus symptoms you mentioned I also had, and it was because of silent reflux. Do you also feel the need to clear your throat, unexplained cough or have post nasal drip? Raising the head posts of the bed by 20-25 cm helped with the leaking of stomach acid during sleep.
  • The pain under the rib is something that needs to be checked out thoroughly. It can be reflux related, but also gallbladder, liver or pancreas related. I had a lot of pain under my ribs.
  • Stomach bloat. This is why EPI, SIBO, Candida overgrowth, gallbladder and pancreas function and any possible source of malabsorption need to be checked.
  • Heart issues, neuropathy, blisters in the mouth, air hunger in my case all were caused by nutrient deficiencies. The Genova and Great Plains are good ones here, although not paid by insurance.
 

antares4141

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Truth or consequences, nm
Beadoc, you gave me a lot to chew here. I appreciate this! Going to take me a long time to digest all of it but just wanted to say Thank you!
I've got some kind of weird cold right now. And my energy levels are lower than they have been in some time. So much so that I have the urge to quit gluten right away. Have to wait till I see gastro doc though.

  • On reflux. I had silent reflux, which means you do not have the classic heartburn feel but stomach acid does come up into the esophagus, especially at night when lying horizontally. The salivation, lump in throat, overly sensitive esophagus symptoms you mentioned I also had, and it was because of silent reflux. Do you also feel the need to clear your throat, unexplained cough or have post nasal drip? Raising the head posts of the bed by 20-25 cm helped with the leaking of stomach acid during sleep.
  • The pain under the rib is something that needs to be checked out thoroughly. It can be reflux related, but also gallbladder, liver or pancreas related. I had a lot of pain under my ribs.
  • Stomach bloat. This is why EPI, SIBO, Candida overgrowth, gallbladder and pancreas function and any possible source of malabsorption need to be checked.
  • Heart issues, neuropathy, blisters in the mouth, air hunger in my case all were caused by nutrient deficiencies. The Genova and Great Plains are good ones here, although not paid by insurance.

Have virtually everything you mentioned.
 
Messages
57
Location
Italy
Hello, I post my experience in gluten field. Both my mum and I had to completely remove it for hyper-sensivity (not intollerances or allergies, though) and needed over 3 years to reintroduce it. In my case, I found that following a mixed gluten and gluten free diet is the best, because it avoids too air in my bowel.

My doctors told us that, when you leave a food (gluten overall) your body strives to learn again how to digest it ...

However, everyone has his own body and experience.
Hope my story will help