Glutamine and methylation, important

[vortex]

Something very interesting reaction to glutamine and methylation.

I have been on methylation protocol for a year but
Prior to that tried everything like whey etc.

I have been tinkering with methyl folate dose for a
Year and finally got up to 5 mg a day because of
Lack of results, I have had startup and reactions
But stalled on energy and healing.

Well I recently started on glutamine to heal my gut
And have been hit with huge wave of methylation
Startup symptoms as a result.

I only have been taking 500mg which is a small dose
As some people take 20 grams per day.

So I have been doing some research and it says
Glutamine can become depleted if you have an
Infection, well how about viral ebv and hsv6 for
20 years ??

Anyway, I know I have low glutathione and have tried
Cysteine like whey because cysteine is supposed to
Be the limiting factor in glutathione production but
After failing on whey and failing on methylation
But then having huge startup on glutamine,
I am starting to think I have massive glutamine
Deficiency which is the limiting factor in my
Healing because it is holding up glutathione
Production as the substrate is lacking.

I am starting to think that no matter how much tweaking of methylation factors
Like adenob12 or methylfolate or mb12 etc etc. If you don't have enough glutamine you aren't going to Get the reaction to make glutathione going and you Won't heal.

I think a lot of people have never considered this because
Glutamine is so abundant in your diet and your body can
Make it from other aminos but if you have bee sick along
Time this might still not overcome it.


I am confused why 500mg gives me a reaction considering
Normal diet from meat should give 1-6 grams a day, why would
500mg do anything, also could there be a snp limiting glutamine
Production ?

 

[Critterina]

@vortex ,

Thanks for this post. Good food for thought. I have been avoiding glutamine and taking GABA to help balance that equation and relax my muscles. But I'm on step 2 of the 4R gut rebuilding (a huge difference over step one that I've been doing for a year, unaware of the program), and see that glutamine is in Step 4 in healing the gut.

I have a sample packet of glutamine that came with some supplements I bought, sitting on the shelf for a year now. I think I just may try it!

Also, I have to speak up for the scientific method here. We are complex organisms in a complex environment, and it is nearly impossible for us to hold all variables constant save one, so that when we change it, we can attribute the change in outcome to the change in that variable. So give it a few goes and find out if the glutamine is consistent in causing that reaction. Just having it happen once is what we call anecdotal evidence - could be, could be coincidence.

Happy for your outcome, whatever the cause!

Critterina

 

[halcyon]

If your digestive system is not great at breaking down proteins then you might not actually be getting at much from your diet as you believe.

Glutamine is used up by enterocytes as well as white blood cells and if you're sick it can be used up faster than your body can produce it. I've never noticed any effects from taking it, but I definitely notice I feel worse when I stop taking it.

 

[vortex]

well I have been taking it for a couple of weeks and definitely notice when I take it, I get
startup symptoms. So it is the glutamine that is causing it.

I just think my body is really depleted in some things after having a couple of viral infections for 20 years.

@vortex ,

Thanks for this post. Good food for thought. I have been avoiding glutamine and taking GABA to help balance that equation and relax my muscles. But I'm on step 2 of the 4R gut rebuilding (a huge difference over step one that I've been doing for a year, unaware of the program), and see that glutamine is in Step 4 in healing the gut.

I have a sample packet of glutamine that came with some supplements I bought, sitting on the shelf for a year now. I think I just may try it!

Also, I have to speak up for the scientific method here. We are complex organisms in a complex environment, and it is nearly impossible for us to hold all variables constant save one, so that when we change it, we can attribute the change in outcome to the change in that variable. So give it a few goes and find out if the glutamine is consistent in causing that reaction. Just having it happen once is what we call anecdotal evidence - could be, could be coincidence.

Happy for your outcome, whatever the cause!

Critterina

 

[sregan]

Glutamine is well known for bodybuilders as the cortisol lowering amino of choice. Cortisol can catabalize muscle so that's the last thing bodybuilders want. Be aware of this if you feel you might already be low on cortisol (those of us who have had cfs for years).

 

[Critterina]

Thanks, @sregan ! I did use that trial packet today (5 mg!) but I take prednisone to replace my low cortisol, so I won't be adding it to my regimen. (I had low cortisol and muscle catabolism - must have been due to another cause. Maybe not digesting the meat I was eating? BCAAs helped a LOT!)

 

[sregan]

Thanks, @sregan ! I did use that trial packet today (5 mg!) but I take prednisone to replace my low cortisol, so I won't be adding it to my regimen. (I had low cortisol and muscle catabolism - must have been due to another cause. Maybe not digesting the meat I was eating? BCAAs helped a LOT!)

Was it 5 mg of Glutamine? That's barely a speck. I've got 1000mg tablets and before that 750mg capsules.

 

[PeterPositive]

Was it 5 mg of Glutamine? That's barely a speck. I've got 1000mg tablets and before that 750mg capsules.

Hmmm... 5mg sounds weird indeed. Maybe 5 grams?

 

[Critterina]

Was it 5 mg of Glutamine? That's barely a speck. I've got 1000mg tablets and before that 750mg capsules.

Grrrr! I threw the package away and the trash was picked up today. Maybe 5 g. Probably. Sorry, guys.

 

[PeterPositive]

Thanks, @sregan ! I did use that trial packet today (5 mg!) but I take prednisone to replace my low cortisol, so I won't be adding it to my regimen. (I had low cortisol and muscle catabolism - must have been due to another cause. Maybe not digesting the meat I was eating? BCAAs helped a LOT!)

Interesting. Two quick questions if you don't mind:

Would glutamine help with adrenal fatigue? It is still not entirely clear to me what happens to cortisol production under that condition, especially since it fluctuates consistently during the day.

What is your dosage of BCAAs?

Cheers

 

[sregan]

Interesting. Two quick questions if you don't mind:

Would glutamine help with adrenal fatigue? It is still not entirely clear to me what happens to cortisol production under that condition, especially since it fluctuates consistently during the day.

What is your dosage of BCAAs?

I would be careful taking Glutamine or anything that lowers cortisol (Phosphatidyl Serine, Beta-Sitosterols, Holy Basil) if you feel your Adrenals are compromised.

Discussion:

In the beginning of my CFS (and perhaps others) cortisol was very high due to stress of having the feeling of something terribly wrong with me. I went to Dr. after Dr. and of all the tests they took the only thing abnormal was my 24 hour cortisol collection was high.

In that time I would completely suggest cortisol lowering supplements to save your Adrenals. I wish I had known this.

The adrenals quickly become fatigued as this stress (anxiety/panic) remains and then the opposite needs to happen. You desperately need your cortisol. Many people in the exhaustion phase (of the 7 phases that will show on a salivary cortisol/dhea test) will only feel better when they supplement Hydrocortisone.

What i have found that will greatly help the adrenals is:

1. Pantethine (active B5)
2. PABA (will keep your body from breaking down cortisol, Licorice does this also I prefer to use PABA it seems more predictable and less side effects for me)
3. Higher dose Vitamin C (supposedly the adrenals dump a bunch of this when stress hits, have had luck with spirulina also).

These sups Esp the PABA (or licorice) should be taken in the AM when your cortisol levels are the highest to extend that cortisol throughout the day.

 

[Tunguska]

I've used glutamine on and off (500mg-10g) for 8 months and it seems to be a requirement for things to work in general although it's something I notice through correlation because most of the time effects aren't immediate like NAC (which it seems to help work). On some days I took 5g and noticed a boost. I didn't know that it lowered cortisol, thanks. Note I've also had a high intake of glycine (not quite intentional). I do have gut issues but not what people describe as leaky gut. I figure the glutamine might have helped prevent that because otherwise my gut was put through hell. Glutamine+whey+gelatin+NAC to be precise. But that probably promotes glutathione which is what Freddd advises against for methylation. However cutting these and going for methylation alone doesn't seem to work too well for me so far.

Some people might react to glutamine because derived from wheat.

 

[sregan]

Glutamine is supposed to be very good for the gut!

This Article mentions 2 of the best gut supplements I know (Glutamine and DGL licorice)

#3 L-Glutamine is critical for any program designed to heal leaky gut. Glutamine is an essential amino acid that is anti-inflammatory and necessary for the growth and repair of your intestinal lining. L-glutamine acts a protector and coats your cell walls, acting as a repellent to irritants. Take 2-5 grams 2x daily.6

#4 Licorice Root (DGL) is an adaptogenic herb that helps balance cortisol levels and improves acid production in the stomach. DGL supports the body’s natural processes for maintaining the mucosal lining of the stomach and duodenum. This herb is especially beneficial if someone’s leaky gut is being caused by emotional stress. Take 500mg 2x daily.

#5 Quercetin has also been shown to improve gut barrier function by sealing the gut because it supports creation of tight junction proteins. It also stabilizes mast cells and reduces the release of histamine which is common in food intolerance. New studies have also shown it’s effectiveness in healing ulcerative colitis. Take 500mg 3x daily with meals.

 

[Critterina]

@sregan ,
Do you know if DGL's "helps balance cortisol levels" contains any chance of reducing LOW cortisol levels? I had that happen with another supplement, and for people who are already low, like me, it can send you to emergency (if you are lucky enough to get there.)
Thanks!

 

[aaron_c]

@vortex

I am also quite interested in glutamine right now. I experienced insomnia and increased alertness (until the lack of good sleep turned my brain to mush) with just one gram of glutamine powder. But I assumed that it was from the glutamine becoming glutamate rather than GABA (I think it is more involved than this, but at the very least we need B6 to convert glutamate directly into GABA, and I am often deficient in that.) So I am curious: What are your "startup symptoms" like?

Interesting. Two quick questions if you don't mind:

Would glutamine help with adrenal fatigue? It is still not entirely clear to me what happens to cortisol production under that condition, especially since it fluctuates consistently during the day.
Cheers

Hi Peter

I read that most of the mutations associated with ME are either connected with cortisol or serotonin (which I guess has some kind of involved relationship with cortisol). I haven't had time to look into it further, but the article I read was on phoenixrising, I think. What I got was that even aside from the problems producing ACTH due to low glutathione, many of us have some dysfunction with both how much cortisol we produce in response to ACTH, and with how our cells respond to that cortisol. There is probably more, but that is what I recall.

@Tunguska

I wonder...you *might* be the second person I saw saying that they tolerate glutamine but also take plenty of glycine. I might just try that!

I don't know where Freddd ended in his discussion with Rich Van K about the whole glutathione thing (so someone please finish the story if you know it!) but in the first bit I read, Rich suggested that Freddd had a rare genetic condition that specifically caused problems with a cobalamin transport protein, which resulted in GSH causing issues for Freddd specifically, but not most of us. As I imagine you know, Rich was very much in favor of raising GSH levels.

@sregan

I wonder...maybe glutamine is preserving cortisol rather than lowering it. As in, perhaps glutamine lowers cortisol because it provides an alternate emergency source of ATP, thus negating the necessity of high cortisol during a workout? To be clear: I don't know how it works. But it seems weird to me that bodybuilders would megadose on something that would somehow block cortisol, because I imagine that would lower their endurance. Do you know the specific mechanism of action?