• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Glucose v D-Ribose (St Marks Solution)

Messages
27
I am making up some St Mark’s Solution and am wondering wether I can substitute Glucose for D-Ribose. Both are sugar but not exactly the same. I have lots of D-Ribose but no Glucose. Does it make much if any difference?

If you don’t know then: St. Mark’s solution is a potassium-free glucose electrolyte mix commonly referred to as an oral rehydration solution (ORS).

The ingredients are salt, sodium bicarbonate and glucose.

Thanks
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,064
Location
Second star to the right ...
am wondering wether I can substitute Glucose for D-Ribose. Both are sugar but not exactly the same. I have lots of D-Ribose but no Glucose
I'm a little confused because you ask if you can substitute glucose for d-ribose, but go on to say you have lots of d-ribose but no glucose, so all I can do is answer generally.


It seems to me that there probably isnt any interchangeability between d-ribose and glucose, in spite of their both being sugars. They aren't isomers.

D-ribose and ribose are the structural spine, or backbone of, DNA and RNA, and ribose is a key component of ATP, the main energy source in cells., whereas, as far as I know (which isnt all that far), glucose is only the precursor to glycogen.

Ribose occurs naturally in our bodies, and is derived from blood glucose, so while a form of glucose is the precursor to ribose, that doesnt make it easily interchangeable with ribose.

Sooooo ..... I guess the simple answer is no, probably not a good idea to substitute glucose for d-ribose.

This long and rambling answer brought to you by cog-fog, mild PEM, and The Usual SUspects ....

Good luck with your experiment, and if you can, please post back and let us know how it all worked out ....:):):)
 
Messages
27
I'm a little confused because you ask if you can substitute glucose for d-ribose, but go on to say you have lots of d-ribose but no glucose, so all I can do is answer generally.

It seems to me that there probably isnt any interchangeability between d-ribose and glucose, in spite of their both being sugars. They aren't isomers.

D-ribose and ribose are the structural spine, or backbone of, DNA and RNA, and ribose is a key component of ATP, the main energy source in cells., whereas, as far as I know (which isnt all that far), glucose is only the precursor to glycogen.

Ribose occurs naturally in our bodies, and is derived from blood glucose, so while a form of glucose is the precursor to ribose, that doesnt make it easily interchangeable with ribose.

Sooooo ..... I guess the simple answer is no, probably not a good idea to substitute glucose for d-ribose.

This long and rambling answer brought to you by cog-fog, mild PEM, and The Usual SUspects ....

Good luck with your experiment, and if you can, please post back and let us know how it all worked out ....:):):)

I should have said ‘substitute glucose with D-Ribose’ ie use D-Ribose instead of Glucose.

The glucose helps absorb the electrolytes apparently.

Thanks for the reply however.

The glucose helps absorb the electrolytes apparently.
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,518
Location
Great Lakes
You can use sucrose/sugar instead of glucose. That's what I do with my diy electrolyte. (I use organic.)

Edit: Also d-ribose started causing me problems. I ended up in the ER with tachycardia and chest pain after taking it for about a week.

I know some people get help from it but some of us do not. Just be careful. :)
 
Last edited:

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,064
Location
Second star to the right ...
You can use sucrose/sugar instead of glucose.
I dont know how well table sugar will work, as opposed to glucose.


Table sugar, the regular kind that we usually use to sweeten things, is sucrose, which is made up of fructose and glucose, and is a disaccharide which would metabolize slightly differently. Glucose is a monosaccharide.

If I understand what @MarkRichardson is putting together, and any understanding right now is a long shot, it's probably better to stick with a monosaccharide, but who knows.

You probably dont want to use d-ribose instead of glucose, since d-ribose interacts with phosphate groups in the formation of RNA. Phosphates include potassium and sodium salts, and since you want to avoid potassium, why roll those dice, but more educated science-y minds might have a better take on this.
 
Last edited:

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,158
As I understand it the World Health Organiusations oral rehydration solution requires glucose to work at its best. I don't recall the bio chemistry but I recall watching a talk or reading a paper on this and concluded that the SIS one I was using likely wasn't working as well due to its replacement of the glucose with a sweetener. The ORS ones you can typically buy do usually contain glucose for this reason although most re-hydration solutions dont have a good mix and it is quite difficult to get the WHO recipe cheap commercially.
 
Messages
27
You can use sucrose/sugar instead of glucose. That's what I do with my diy electrolyte. (I use organic.)

Edit: Also d-ribose started causing me problems. I ended up in the ER with tachycardia and chest pain after taking it for about a week.

I know some people get help from it but some of us do not. Just be careful. :)


Wow, any idea why?
 
Messages
27
I dont know how well table sugar will work, as opposed to glucose.

Table sugar, the regular kind that we usually use to sweeten things, is sucrose, which is made up of fructose and glucose, and is a disaccharide which would metabolize slightly differently. Glucose is a monosaccharide.

If I understand what @MarkRichardson is putting together, and any understanding right now is a long shot, it's probably better to stick with a monosaccharide, but who knows.

You probably dont want to use d-ribose instead of glucose, since d-ribose interacts with phosphate groups in the formation of RNA. Phosphates include potassium and sodium salts, and since you want to avoid potassium, why roll those dice, but more educated science-y minds might have a better take on this.

Why avoid potassium? I know too much can be bad. Can I cause tachycardia? I’m scientifically dumb.
 
Messages
27
As I understand it the World Health Organiusations oral rehydration solution requires glucose to work at its best. I don't recall the bio chemistry but I recall watching a talk or reading a paper on this and concluded that the SIS one I was using likely wasn't working as well due to its replacement of the glucose with a sweetener. The ORS ones you can typically buy do usually contain glucose for this reason although most re-hydration solutions dont have a good mix and it is quite difficult to get the WHO recipe cheap commercially.


What does SIS stand for? Soluble ingestion solution? (not a serious suggestion)
 

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,158

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
1,504
Location
small town midwest
Why do you want a potassium free solution? St Mark's is an ORS for people with short bowel syndrome when a person has a damaged (or missing) small intestine. Missing pieces of your intestine causes specific electrolyte problems that don't apply to other diseases because different parts of your GI system do different things. It's very much not the same as our GI problems.

The ORS that's recommended for PwME is something like Normalyte that contain potassium. It's expensive if you buy it premade, but you can make your own at home. You can look at Dysautonomia International website for good ideas for us, PwME or POTS.

Take a look at Cort's article here:https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...al-rehydration-pots-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
 

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
1,504
Location
small town midwest
Here's another thought... ORS for PwME contain glucose, not ribose.

There's something called a sodium-glucose transport protein that carries sodium into your body from your small intestine, but only in the presence of glucose. It's called the SGPT1 if you want to look it up. This SGPT1 lives in the small intestine. Since the people who use St Mark's don't have a small intestine, there's no sense in giving them an ORS with glucose in it. Since PwME do have a small intestine, we can use glucose.

The relative concentrations of sodium and glucose in ORS is what makes them work properly, when something like gatorade doesn't because it's too sugary and not salty enough.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,064
Location
Second star to the right ...
Why avoid potassium? I know too much can be bad. Can I cause tachycardia? I’m scientifically dumb.
Only because you stipulated in your first post on this thread that the St Marks you were trying to replicate was a potassium-free glucose electrolyte mix, so I assumed that you had reasons for avoiding potassium.

Too much potassium can cause arrhythmias and other cardiac events that are disconcerting and, in some cases, really dangerous. If you take normal or even upper limit amounts of potassium, you should be fine.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,064
Location
Second star to the right ...
The ORS that's recommended for PwME is something like Normalyte that contain potassium.
There's something called a sodium-glucose transport protein that carries sodium into your body from your small intestine, but only in the presence of glucose. It's called the SGPT1 if you want to look it up. This SGPT1 lives in the small intestine. Since the people who use St Mark's don't have a small intestine, there's no sense in giving them an ORS with glucose in it. Since PwME do have a small intestine, we can use glucose.
Great information, @wabi-sabi , and thank you for posting it!!!

Like you, I assumed that @MarkRichardson had some reason for avoiding potassium, hence the St Marks. Your explanation makes stuff really clear ...:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :hug::hug:
 

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
1,504
Location
small town midwest
Your explanation makes stuff really clear ..
Ooh, thanks. Hopefully I'm actually right since I just asked Dr. Google and you know how he is! I get the feeling there are different recipes for ORS depending on what your medical issue is. I'm a firm believer in getting matching the treatment with the problem.

I use normalyte myself sometimes and it does help. It's just too expensive to use all the time and I don't have the energy to make my own.