General Election in the UK- will it change Anything?

[bertiedog]

(Not sure if I am in the right forum, apologies if I have it wrong).

So its only 5 hours till the polls close and we will begin to get some idea of the likely result. What I am wondering is, as a country we have always been very middle of the road but the past 5 years things took a nosedive and we appear to have ended up as quite a divided society if you believe what the polls show.

I am hoping that the British people will show that they still are a fair minded society and kick out the Tory party that thought it was ok to attack disabled people's benefits and housing allowances in order to pay down the deficit that was caused by the worldwide banking crisis.

There is sometimes talk of fairness especially with regard to the Lib Dems but they were in power and allowed the bedroom tax to go through so it doesn't really ring true to me and they also knew that the use of foodbanks had risen massively during their watch.

With regard to ME/CFS if we were to get a change of Government, I wonder if it would benefit people with our illness? Probably not a lot would change with regard to the NHS unless there is definitive evidence that a drug will work for at least a good proportion of us however I do feel that there is a chance we could have real fairness in decisions made by Government which could help us to become a more compassionate society again. It seems to me that the past 5 years have been very divisive and the opposite of what a well rounded society should be.

I am particularly affected in this election because Nigel Farage is the prospective MP for my area. I live in dread that he is elected. After I had voted this morning, guess who was over the road from the polling station - yes Nigel Farage and his minders. I couldn't let the opportunity pass me by and just had to say something. It was a bit weak but I did tell them I really hoped they didn't get in. I got a sarcastic Thank You and also Have a Nice Day to which I replied, well I definitely will, as long as you lot don't get it!

Pam

 

[Esther12]

I hate the Labour party, but overall they're probably not as bad as the Conservatives, so have my full throated endorsement: Go Labour Go!

 

[ukxmrv]

Just some random thoughts - my first was "no, not Farage as my MP!". Then I tried to think more rationally. Nigel Farage had a bad experience with the NHS (I think that they missed his cancer) so he might be OK to go if people in his electorate brought health related problems to him. I'd like to see someone independent like him on the APPG on ME and tackling topics. Then again he may be entirely disinterested or even obstructive.

I can't see UKIP trying to overturn any of the social changes to benefits and attitudes to disabled people but I've not looked at their policies. We would lose European laws under them but I'm not sure what use they have been to PWME.

The UKIP candidate in my electorate is a thoroughly unpleasant individual so I haven't looked closely at their policies.

 

[*GG*]

Yeah, I doubt things will get better for you, sorry to agree with you. I'm sure lots of people in the US thought when President Osama heard of our illness, something positive would come out of it. I am not aware of that change.

Most of our hope is coming from private money and funding of research, you should hope the rich keep getting richer in the UK, it will trickle down eventually

GG

PS People thought race relations would get better here also, but look at all the rioting in the streets! And look what our dear "leader" says about it. My son would look like Travon Martin etc..Police are being slaughtered in the streets because his race relations (agitator) Al Sharpton helps promote himself, and keeps inflaming the crowds!!

 

[worldbackwards]

I can't see UKIP trying to overturn any of the social changes to benefits and attitudes to disabled people but I've not looked at their policies. We would lose European laws under them but I'm not sure what use they have been to PWME.

The UKIP candidate in my electorate is a thoroughly unpleasant individual so I haven't looked closely at their policies.

UKIP are essentially a hard right wing libertarian party who have wrapped themselves in immigration talk to appeal to the masses. Their notion of 'freedom' is to allow the rich to go on with whatever they want without the terrible imposition of having to pay their taxes. They are not our friends, because they are the friends of nobody who require assistance from the state.

Labour will make cuts, but they are a fraction of what the Tories want to. If you believe in them, in the way that some people believe in faeries at the bottom of the garden, they will disappoint. But Miliband seems a bit better than Blair, a bit more interventionist and pro-worker, evidenced by the hatred that the establishment press have for him, and as such he's worth a vote; they lack courage as Socialists but it's a move on from New Labour and that is a mercy in itself.

Under Labour, there will be fewer cuts to welfare, because under the Tories there won't be any welfare left. They intend to abolish youth unemployment by taking benefits away from the young: that is the logic we are dealing with. As far as ME goes, politics will follow science and science has yet to get it's act together.

On benefits. it's worth remembering that Labour introduced the WCA, though I don't think they would have irresponsibly rolled it out when it was clear that it wasn't working in the way that the Tories did. They can't be trusted, but some of Labour mean well and that is at least a start.

you should hope the rich keep getting richer in the UK, it will trickle down eventually

We've been doing that for the last 30 years. Unsuprisingly enough, they kept it all for themselves. Spare us the American 'freedom' to die in the gutter as no-one lifts a finger.

 

[*GG*]

We've been doing that for the last 30 years. Unsuprisingly enough, they kept it all for themselves. Spare us the American 'freedom' to die in the gutter as no-one lifts a finger.

Spare me your Socialist utopia, where people are afraid/or avoid their "free" healthcare because the Drs are useless or are afraid of getting locked up in a psych ward! There will be a safety net, not everyone is heartless!

GG

 

[user9876]

Yeah, I doubt things will get better for you, sorry to agree with you. I'm sure lots of people in the US thought when President Osama heard of our illness, something positive would come out of it. I am not aware of that change.

Most of our hope is coming from private money and funding of research, you should hope the rich keep getting richer in the UK, it will trickle down eventually

GG

A different view to take is who will we be worse off with. With the tories wanting 12billion in welfare cuts that is bound to impact on disability benefits and who may be eligible also of concern is the idea of mandatory treatment if on benefits so do GET or have no money.

In terms of research I wouldn't hold out hope that any party will increase funding or challenge the medical establishment as to where it goes. I suspect the idea of spending research money on chronic illness (which is generally underfunded) to cut future welfare bills is beyond most politicians.

 

[worldbackwards]

Nice to see we've got our own candidate standing in Wales

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Nice to see we've got our own candidate standing in Wales

Actually, although my maternal grandfather played full back for Wales in 1908, my surname comes from East Anglian Celtic stock.

I think we may be on the right track. Cameron again would have been a complete disaster. Effective healthcare would have collapsed since it would have become as cost ineffective as in the US and we would only be spending have as much, or less. The only saving grace we have at the moment is that our maternal mortality rates are not quite as bad as in the US, although worse than Poland.

In fact the next prime minister will be Nicola Sturgeon. They will not call her that but the reason Ed has refused to do a deal with her is that he knows that she can twirl him around her little finger. She has style, he does not. So England will be run by Scotland (as it so often has been in the past) and since Sturgeon is prepared to declare all the policies that will help ill people that Milliband is too frightened to mention that must be a good thing. Moreover, since the SNP will discover that they can rule England as well they will quietly give up on leaving the United Kingdom. It all seems very satisfactory to me. Even Milliband has said he will disband the internal market - which is the most important thing to do. Sturgeon wants to spend £42 billion more on healthcare, which is about what it needs (OK it should be £60 billion but she is close).

I would never vote UKIP but I am not so sure that one should be too hard on Farage (even if his cronies are vile). In the TV debate I thought he was the only person who made sense throughout. We do not have the infrastructure for the number of people we have, let alone more. In Spain the roads are empty, in England they are clogged up. There are not houses for people to live in - and he was even prepared to accuse the Tories of only being interested in the rich rather than ordinary working people who cannot get a living wage. He decided he was against further private interference in the NHS. There is a lot not to like but judged on what he actually says I think there are also some sound ideas.[/QUOTE]

 

[MeSci]

I would never vote UKIP but I am not so sure that one should be too hard on Farage (even if his cronies are vile). In the TV debate I thought he was the only person who made sense throughout. We do not have the infrastructure for the number of people we have, let alone more. In Spain the roads are empty, in England they are clogged up. There are not houses for people to live in - and he was even prepared to accuse the Tories of only being interested in the rich rather than ordinary working people who cannot get a living wage. He decided he was against further private interference in the NHS. There is a lot not to like but judged on what he actually says I think there are also some sound ideas.

Why don't we just encourage more people to emigrate? Preferably the racists and right-wingers.

I hope Labour win, although I'm not a Labour supporter and am irritated by Miliband's use of cliches, especially '(hard)working families'.

What exactly is one of those, I always wonder - does it include babies?

And what about the disabled? Are we now at the bottom of the agenda for Labour too?

My main comforts are

(a) that, like most politicians, Miliband and co will actually do things that are significantly different from their election-speak, and will revert to a more socialist emphasis, which most Miliband supporters were hoping for when supporting him in the leader battle
(b) that Labour will form a coalition with the most like-minded other parties, preferably excluding the LibDems, who I just don't trust after they got into bed with the Tories.

 

[worldbackwards]

In fact the next prime minister will be Nicola Sturgeon. They will not call her that but the reason Ed has refused to do a deal with her is that he knows that she can twirl him around her little finger. She has style, he does not. So England will be run by Scotland (as it so often has been in the past) and since Sturgeon is prepared to declare all the policies that will help ill people that Milliband is too frightened to mention that must be a good thing. Moreover, since the SNP will discover that they can rule England as well they will quietly give up on leaving the United Kingdom.

This I don't buy. The Nats are the new New Labour after a fashion - on a high, able to be all things to all men, not prepared to step up when it counts. They have tax raising powers in Scotland that could be used to mitigate austerity. They have't been touched, all the better to blame it on 'them at Westminster'. They've held the line on the council tax freeze more assiduously than Tory councils. They can articulate things in the language of the left as it's a Scottish vote-winner, but ultimately the answer is always 'blame the English'.

I've seen plenty of other English lefties thinking that the SNP are our champions across the water (or border anyway). They aren't - they are Nats first and they'll say whatever it takes to get them independence. The question is more how much can they play silly beggars without it becoming obvious that they aren't governing in the people's interest, which will probably restrict their worst instincts a bit.

It may look like a kind of touchy-feely, Social Democratic kind of Nationalism, and I by no means think everyone who voted for independence has got it in for the English - they just wanted to be rid of the Westminster system and who can blame them. But ultimately Nationalism by any name thrives on an in-group and an out-group, and I don't think that sort of politics is very pretty.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Let's see.

 

[bertiedog]

I don't know where everyone lives but here in Thanet South by the sea it seems to be a huge turnout. My son has come down from London to vote (he works in London and lives up there 4 days of the week and has a house here too) and he said he had to queue for 25 minutes this morning, I had to wait about 10 minutes and his friend this evening had to wait nearly 30 minutes so no question UKIP seem to bring out strong feelings in people.

Its the language they use I cannot stand, it is so divisive and they want even more cuts than the Tories and quicker too. I feel they just blame everything on immigration and I don't see how being a little Englander would work in the global world we now live in. I also get the feeling that they are very weak in the compassion stakes too.

Is everyone convinced that Labour is going to form the next Government then?

Pam

 

[worldbackwards]

Is everyone convinced that Labour is going to form the next Government then?

Convinced? No, but it's likely. The late swing in the polls this morning means they have a good chance of being the largest party and, even if they don't come first, Cameron is unlikely to have enough allies to back him in parliament.

But polls have been wrong before and there are a lot of new variables, UKIP amongst them, that pollsters haven't seen before. Basically, we can but hope.

 

[user9876]

From the exit polls looks like we are stuck with Dave and George so expect the economy to crash further, welfare cuts and the collapse of the NHS

 

[worldbackwards]

The pollsters should be hung. In fact they probably will be.

 

[Esther12]

Will be interesting to see how they plan to get £12 billion from the welfare budget.

 

[bertiedog]

Its staggering that the polls could be so wrong, Perhaps many people haven't been honest on who they voted for (perhaps I am clutching at straws here). Only good thing is the UKIP prediction, it could be the end of them if they haven't managed to do well. Also Lib Dems have got what they deserve as they didn't seem to have any principles.

Pam

 

[worldbackwards]

Yougov exit poll is completely different:
YouGov exit poll - CON 284 MPs, LAB 263, LIBS 31, SNP 48, UKIP 2, PLAID 3, GREEN 1
Far less Tories, and no majority for coalition. There's hope.

 

[alex3619]

I suspect the idea of spending research money on chronic illness (which is generally underfunded) to cut future welfare bills is beyond most politicians.

So long as the research is about pathophysiology and cure this is the only effective long term solution. The rest is just better bandaids.