gabatril/ anyone used it??

heapsreal

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I understand gabatril is an anticonvulsant used for chronic nerve type pain and also suppose to help sleep. It looks like its used in the same way as lyrica and neurontin. I would like to use it for insomnia and nocturnal leg pain(maybe restless legs but not sure).
Can anyone share their experience with this drug, much appreciated.

cheers!!!
 
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I tried Gabatril several years ago. It seemed to help a bit with the neuro-overstimulation at first, but after several days on it I felt depressed and teary. I went off it and tried a couple of times again later with the same effect. I am so weird when it comes to medications, so don't let my experience discourage you from trying it. I hope it helps you!
 

soxfan

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I used it too way back in 2008. The first night I took the whole pill (big mistake) and woke up feeling terribly drugged and hungover. It lasted the entire day.
The following night I took half the pill and it never made me sleep. I was just in the half awake/half asleep limbo all night. My lyme doctor had prescribed it and said it helps with deep sleep which is something I never seem to get.
I am having problems again with sleep so I might have to try it again...I am very sensitive to meds so my experience might not be normal.
 

heapsreal

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its a tough one trying to find something that will work all the timeor even half the time, lol as i try to alternate my sleep stuff to avoid tolerance, it helps but eventually tolerance catches up and need to take and extended break from certain meds. gabitril is on my list of things to talk too the doc about.

cheers!!!
 

nandixon

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@heapsreal
Did you ever try the Gabitril (tiagabine)?

And if you had either a strong positive or negative reaction have you checked your SNPs on the relevant gene (i.e., SLC6A1)?

I'm trying to figure out if this is worth trying. Thanks!
 

heapsreal

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@heapsreal
Did you ever try the Gabitril (tiagabine)?

And if you had either a strong positive or negative reaction have you checked your SNPs on the relevant gene (i.e., SLC6A1)?

I'm trying to figure out if this is worth trying. Thanks!

No haven't tried gabitril but I'm still keen. I wonder if it would be a benzo replacement.

Haven't checked SNPs.

What's your main reason for trying gabitril, nerve pain or for sleep etc
 

heapsreal

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I'm curious if it might improve the quality and depth of my sleep. It seems to be the only GABA transporter (GAT-1) reuptake inhibitor. And I'm homo- or heterozygous for a lot of SNPs on that gene.

Same thing here. Good to have an alternative to benzos. Even using it for a few months etc may reduce any tolerance from benzos themselves and possibly go back on them if needed? ?
 

acrosstheveil

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i think everything that acts on gaba receptors carries the same risk as benzos. gabapentin was even worse than benzos for me. honestly, clonazaepam works great for all my symptoms but I don't want to be dependent on gaba drugs. way worse than opiates IMO.
 

heapsreal

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i think everything that acts on gaba receptors carries the same risk as benzos. gabapentin was even worse than benzos for me. honestly, clonazaepam works great for all my symptoms but I don't want to be dependent on gaba drugs. way worse than opiates IMO.

I hear ya but I think if we have chronic sleep dysfunction what do we do. Gaba is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter. I wish they would research more into this with cfsme as there is a lot we don't know about sleep in cfsme?
 

zzz

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i think everything that acts on gaba receptors carries the same risk as benzos. gabapentin was even worse than benzos for me. honestly, clonazaepam works great for all my symptoms but I don't want to be dependent on gaba drugs. way worse than opiates IMO.
The GABA receptor is a rather complex entity. Unlike GABA itself (and various other ligands), the benzodiazepines and gabapentin are technically not GABA agonists; that is, they do not directly stimulate the GABA receptor. Instead, they bind at sites on the alpha subunit of the GABA receptor, which is a physically distinct part of the receptor. Ligands that bind to the alpha subunit of the GABA receptor are allosteric modulators of the receptor; in the case of the benzodiazepines and gabapentin, they are positive allosteric modulators. This means that they simply increase the effects of true GABA agonists, but have no effect on the underlying nerve without the presence of these agonists.

So "everything that acts on GABA receptors" encompasses a lot of ligands that act in very different ways; there are many others beside what I have mentioned. You can't really generalize about them all in an accurate way.

As for Gabatril, it's a black box drug with warnings, precautions, adverse drug reactions, and drug interactions that runs for ten pages in the prescribing information. Yes, somnolence is one of its side effects, but so is just about everything else.

Here are the black box warnings for Gabatril:
Seizures in Patients Without Epilepsy: Post-marketing reports have shown that GABITRIL use has been
associated with new onset seizures and status epilepticus in patients without epilepsy. Dose may be an
important predisposing factor in the development of seizures, although seizures have been reported in
patients taking daily doses of GABITRIL as low as 4 mg/day. In most cases, patients were using
concomitant medications (antidepressants, antipsychotics, stimulants, narcotics) that are thought to lower
the seizure threshold. Some seizures occurred near the time of a dose increase, even after periods of prior
stable dosing.

The GABITRIL dosing recommendations in current labeling for treatment of epilepsy were based on use
in patients with partial seizures 12 years of age and older, most of whom were taking enzyme-inducing
antiepileptic drugs (AEDs; e.g., carbamazepine, phenytoin, primidone and phenobarbital) which lower
plasma levels of GABITRIL by inducing its metabolism. Use of GABITRIL without enzyme-inducing
antiepileptic drugs results in blood levels about twice those attained in the studies on which current
dosing recommendations are based (see DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).

Safety and effectiveness of GABITRIL have not been established for any indication other than as
adjunctive therapy for partial seizures in adults and children 12 years and older.

In nonepileptic patients who develop seizures while on GABITRIL treatment, GABITRIL should be
discontinued and patients should be evaluated for an underlying seizure disorder.

Seizures and status epilepticus are known to occur with GABITRIL overdosage (see OVERDOSAGE).
 

zzz

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Gabapentin (Neurontin) does all sorts of things, except for the one thing its inventors designed it to do, which is to act as a GABA-mimetic drug (hence the name). Although structurally similar to GABA, gabapentin shows no affinity for the main GABA receptor at normal concentrations. As I mentioned above, one of the things gabapentin does is bind to sites on the alpha subunit of the GABA receptor. Since these are the same sites that the benzodiazepines bind to, this makes gabapentin one of the best drugs for helping to taper off the benzodiazepines, as the sites formerly occupied by benzodiazepine molecules simply become occupied by gabapentin molecules instead. This also explains why gabapentin is addicting, since like the benzodiazepines, it is a positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptor. However, gabapentin addiction is generally easier to deal with than benzodiazepine addiction. Unlike gabapentin, pregabalin (Lyrica) has no affinity for any sites on the GABA receptor.

Both gabapentin and pregabalin bind to the α2δ (alpha-2-delta) subunit of the voltage-dependent calcium channel in the central nervous system. Gabapentin blocks the action of substance P (SP) at the NK(1) receptor, thereby preventing SP from removing the magnesium block at the NMDA receptor. Pregabalin, however, directly decreases the release of SP, along with the neurotransmitters glutamate, norepinephrine, and calcitonin gene-related peptide. Both gabapentin and pregabalin are potassium channel openers.

So these two drugs have multiple, overlapping actions. The exact connection between these drugs' actions and their effects is not completely understood.
 

acrosstheveil

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interesting. i wonder if gabatril works for pain. I've been tempted to go back on gabapentin due to pain and lack of pain medicine but I'm really scared of the side effects. It was a horrific experience lasting months coming off of it. Also, made me kind of crazy when on high doses and almost got fired from my job for stupid incidents.
 
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I'm taking klonopin+gabapentin and there are almost no sides except I wake up a bit dizzy on gabapentin at 600mg and it may cause nerve damage. it may stop synaptogenesis but I'm losing a lot of brain cells from hypoxia so maybe it's ok and I don't want it to blunt my creativity or motivation. I've read tiagabine may also increase slow wave sleep. trazodone is also an option. can some please comment on tiagabine experiences??
 

soxfan

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I took Gabatril a long time ago and it was given to me for sleep. I took only 1/4 of the dose and couldn't even wake up the next day. It was one of the worse medication experiences I have ever had. My lyme doc gave it to me because at the time I was having bad sleep issues. But at the time he told me many of his patients have great success using it.

I just got a prescription for Neurontin since I have chronic nerve pain in my feet and calves. I had used it a couple years back and luckily for me a low dose seems to help...

@physicsstudent13 -you say Neurontin causes nerve damage? I think my nerves are already damaged from Lyme so I hope this isn't the case..
 
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I'm sorry to hear this. it might cause numbness or peripheral neuropathy with stopping formation of new synapses.
I have to take it for sleep since it increases slow wave sleep and I can't function and am cognitively disabled without the sleep.
On a study from Columbia University my neurologist Dr. Bazil showed that tiagabine and gabapentin increase SWS. there's a good wikipedia article about it.
so you say that tiagabine was terrible while other patients have had improved sleep and clarity on tiagabine? I had a terrible experience with topamax which didn't help my central apneas or sleep and disabled me cognitively with nausea
 
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