• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To register, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Found a source of B12 comparable to injection that only contains the 2 active forms + pure water.

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
https://natureprovides.com/products/bioactive-liquid-vitamin-b12-uk
Bioactive B12 is a potent and bioavailable blend, containing both of the most active forms of B12: Dual Coenzyme Methylcobalamin and Adenosylcobalamin. With NO artificial preservatives and colourings - and held only in pure reverse osmosis water.

1683442105726.png


I finally had to use my last B12 shot since not being able to get injectable B12 anymore as I live in the UK.

I responded in a big way to the approximate 500mcg dose of out of date methylcobalamin and it was clear I was substantially low in B12 and must have been for 7-8 plus months.

Taking a good quality B12 tablet supplement containing all B vitamins in active methylated form (Igennus) over that time obviously was not working to keep my levels up.

I am taking this product now and feel amazing again with most issues I was having clearing up or improving greatly.

All other sublingual B12 I have come across contain sweetners, flavourings and additives ect.

Hope this helps someone else.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,013
Location
Second star to the right ...
This is a really interesting post, on a supp that's probably of interest to at least half the members here !!!! Thak you for this. Will be checking it out ....
Hope this helps someone else.
It definitely will !!!
All other sublingual B12 I have come across contain sweetners, flavourings and additives ect.
I agree. ANd usually artificial sweeteners that carry their own problems and could be counter-productive ....
I am taking this product now and feel amazing again with most issues I was having clearing up or improving greatly.
That's soooooo encouraging !!!

Thank you again for posting this info @CSMLSM , much appreciated ....
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
So I have been in contact with a GP (I live in UK) about my response to B12 shot and sublingual supplementation.

I requested a loading dose course of vitamin B12 injections and I was told I need to have a test first.

Given the fact I have already at this point had 18.5mg (18.5 standard injection doses) from 1x 0.5mg injection and 18mg from sublingual dosing with vitamin B12, I am at a high chance of coming back in normal range, especially if I do not wait 1-2 weeks before getting tested.
I explain this to him.

I remind him that I was prescribed by a specialist an injection every 3 months appromiately 10 years ago and I do not need a blood test for that and that this was because I was deficient then and needed further injections following loading dose course because my level of B12 kept dropping.

I also explained I had not taken this up because I needed way more vitamin B12 to recover then and that I sourced vitamin B12 injections myself and that I implemented treatment myself until being unable to obtain vitamin B12 shots in the UK due to Brexit and the loop hole allowing importation of injectable B12 was closed.

He relents and agrees to give me one B12 dose-
B12 prescription edited personal info.jpeg


I have had to stop taking vitamin B12 since last Wednesday 10th May and will need to continue to not take vitamin B12 I really need until Friday 19th May when I have the blood test booked.

Given the situation I am probably on my own again to have the correct treatment given to me.

Luckily I have also managed to source 40mg of Methylcobalamin directly from within UK.

This however means I have had to purchase it in dry form so as to avoid it being classed as an injectable as anything injectable requires a prescription here in the UK, even saline which I need to dissolve the dry vitamin B12 in.

To get around this problem I am using saline eye wash that is essentially the same saline solution ingredients and is also sterile.

This section of a b12d.org news letter helped me be confident enough to go down this route-

1684161127509.png

The person that wrote this works in the medical system and is in contact with doctors nearly everyday.

So I am ready with all my supplies and regardless of the test result I will be getting the treatment I need.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,013
Location
Second star to the right ...
So I am ready with all my supplies and regardless of the test result I will be getting the treatment I need.
It astonishes me, the amount of effort govt bodies put into separating us as far as possible from anything that might help us, improve our QOLs, or even possibly heal us, and Im not just speaking to the M.E. community here, tho we know this better than most.

And it's not just govts .... Drs do it, too, hopefully accidentally or due to their general lack of commitment to calling what we deal with an actual illness, and often seem more committed to ignoring our symptoms than pursuing them to a possible positive conclusion. A friend of mine just discovered that of all the tests that their Dr finally agreed to run, the two that he left out turned out to be absolutely critical to a potential diagnosis and treatment.

So good on 'ya. @CSMLSM , for figuring a way around their obdurateness and obstructionism !!!! Its like striking a blow for freedom !!!!
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
@YippeeKi YOW !! Thanks for the comments I totally agree with what you say!

Hope you are managing well, it is good to hear from you.

Hope others here in the UK benefit from this vital source of injectable B12, it seems it is the only option right now for us.

I will report back once I have used it for the first time after my B12 test on Friday.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Just had my first shot of methylcobalamin from Oxford Biosciences and feel better, I had 1mg in 0.75ml saline and have made up 10 syringes of this in total so far for the loading course of every other day injections for at least 2 weeks.

After this time I will decide how I will proceed with further dosing.

I believe I have finally worked out after approximately 10 years why I become B12 deficient despite taking supplements and eating B12 rich foods, so I hope that treating myself for this will lead to me never having to worry about getting B12 for injection again.

Hopefully this is the last time I will need to go through this, now that I am treating my suspected cholestasis (lack of bile flow/production) with bile acids/salts such as TUDCA and ox bile supplements.

Stools are now dark in colour all the time since taking these supplements for approximately 4 months and this is an indication that the bile is now flowing again from the liver to gallbladder and then into the intestines.

The intense pain in my stomach and back that I recently suspected was the pancreas being affected by the cholestasis has completely gone for at least 2 months now.

I also suspect that the repeated bouts of what I now believe was Pancreatitis has affected the production of digestive enzymes. This is because I benefit from taking digestive enzymes and they improve my stools making them appear fully digested and normal.

Previously I had pale/light yellow/orange stools that were not properly digested that floated and appeared oily/fatty.

I had a CT scan of the abdomen recently, nothing to worry about apparently from that so I have not developed cancer or any visible damage of concern from the pancreatitis and I have just yesterday had a faecal elastase test to look for pancreatic exocrine insufficiency (lack of digestive enzymes from pancreas).

This cholestasis is why my almost full recovery stalled last year and I deteriorated developing severe abdominal/back pain, depression/PTSD, fatigue and return of everything that comes with ME/CFS.

It is why I needed and benefitted from such high dose omega 3 supplementation while trying to recover from the stalled recovery and also why over the years I have had a number of very low vitamin D test results.

This is because bile is essential for the absorption of fats like omega 3 and fat soluble vitamins like vitamin D.

It is also why my own treatment for the ME/CFS stopped working and I started to suffer from depression and PTSD again.

This is because omega 3 is needed for functional cannabinoid receptors and my treatment uses CBD and caryophyllene (I source from Copaiba essential oil) which act on the cannabinoid receptors to cause the therapeutic effect I gain from them.

CBD modulates the function of cannabinoid receptors and acts as an enzyme inhibitor of FAAH (Fatty acid amide hydrolase).

Caryophyllene is a cannabinoid receptor type 2 agonist and also an inhibitor of FAAH.

Cannabinoid type 2 receptors help to regulate many of the immune cells in the human body. Leading to immune deactivation following resolution of infections that trigger the immune system. This takes the body back to homeostasis with a dominant innate immune state.

FAAH breaks down Anandamide which is an endogenous cannabinoid in the human body and acts on both cannabinoid type 1 and 2 receptors.

Anandamide is made from omega 6, it also helps regulate the HPA axis, is thought to affect good mood and lack of it is strongly associated with PTSD.

I expect to only get better now and believe this year is the year I am going to be able to build a life for myself and start to live life.

I only hope others can benefit too.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Had a dose of the nature provides sublingual vitamin B12, had some food and supplements (omega 3, zinc citrate, methylated B vitamins, iodine, vitamin D, vitamin K2, potassium citrate, ox bile, digestive enzymes, TUDCA) and then a vitamin B12(methylcobalamin) shot.

Feel very energised and clear headed even more now.

Yesterday did some ground preparation in the garden, cooked dinner and had an epsom salt/magnesium sulphate bath.

Did not feel fatigued or had any PEM following, slept well and got up early.

Had a headache yesterday though later on in the day and was sneezing for a while so I think I had some immune activation. Had this the day before too for a short while.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Been in the garden most of the day doing physical work preparing an area for growing and other stuff.

Had another epsom salt bath and then something to eat just now.

I do not feel fatigued just abit tired with relaxed muscles, feel good from it.

Recovery back on track again, obviously I have been taking CBD and copaiba but now I use a vape pen for both and no longer need to use them sublingually anymore. I use far less this way and is much more convenient.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Had another dose of the nature provides vitamin B12 earlier and just now had all supplements and another vitamin B12 shot after some food.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Did 4 hours in the garden strimming after last post followed by a normal bath, had a break then cooked dinner. Feeling really good and relaxed and still no issues with PEM.

Going to stick to using both the natures provides sublingual and methylcobalamin shots each day plus all the other supplements for at least another week.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Had nature provides vitamin B12 dose this morning plus supplements and worked in the garden for some hours and then decided I fancy a beer or some wine and feel up to walking the 20 minutes to Lidl to buy it, so off I go and buy a bottle of dry shiraz and two bottles of newcastle brown ale and here I am having returned and done some more gardening (very light), I am now about to cook dinner (vegetarian chilli con carni) already drunk a bottle of brown ale, just over half of the bottle of red wine and started on the second bottle of brown ale.

I feel so happy to be able to achieve all this, its amazing! I only hope it continues and I do not hit another issue that holds me back like last year.

Please let me be at the end of this riddle.

Gonna skip the methylcobalamin shot today as I have been drinking alcohol. I intended to go at least two weeks without drinking alcohol, but just decided in the moment I fancied a drink of alcohol and went for it.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
what kind of side effects would starting up B-12 sublingual generate?

(I've been taking methylated B-12 in pill form, not a high dose)
First I have only used sublingual B12 for a short time just on its own and that followed a 0.5mg dose of injected methylcobalamin that was out of date so could have been slightly or even fully degraded to hydroxocobalamin.

Sublingual is supposed to be as good as injection but I am not certain it is, however it is far better than oral route via stomach which would require many proteins to bind to it at different stages to reach your blood.

It is the most complex vitamin to absorb and having issues with bile production/release like me can cause absorption and recycling issues.

Pernicious anaemia is an autoimmune condition that attacks the parietal cells in the stomach that produce a protein called intrinsic factor which is required to bind to B12 in order for it to make it to the next stage of the complex process of absorption.

So, there are many ways the process of absorption can go wrong. If you have an issue absorbing B12 the pill you have been taking will be doing nothing.

As we age we produce less stomach acid and this is also a way B12 absorption can be affected making releasing B12 from the food we eat such as meat more difficult.

With that said, from my experiences of being deficient and then taking B12 injections the start up side effects vary depending on how deficient you are to begin with and how long you have been deficient.

B12 is needed for lipid metabolism and this means producing lipid derived molecules like neurotransmitters, hormones and even anandamide are affected by the lack of this vitamin.

So if you are very deficient you will suddenly start to produce all these things again at a higher rate and in a more normal fashion. So you could have a short time period where you feel not quite right, like say if someone takes an SSRI at high dose for some time and then just suddenly stops the balance is disrupted.

It however will not be bad as you are starting to produce things that are needed again, just you will have a transition period where all the receptor systems involved with all these molecules will need to reach homeostasis/balance again.

I have had headaches for short periods accompanied by sneezing which felt like I had a cold or some sort of viral thing. Also spots over the body flaring up out of nowhere which I believe was due to immune system working better and recognising bacteria ect in the skin from not being able to be out of bed or sitting for long.

So spots on back, bottom and less so on face, arms and legs. This could also be because sebum (lipid) is being produced again and while it was not being produced it created a lack of clearing debree from pores in the skin which it will now start doing again but the pores may be blocked, so spots.

This was really bad aproximately 10 years ago when I first discovered I was deficient and started injections.
This time around I had not been as deficient in B12 or for as long and this was very mild compared to before.

If you are deficient you will respond with clearer thoughts, more energy, improved sleep pattern and better appetite.

Everyone however is different and you may have a slightly different experience.

Taking B2, B6 and folate/B9 with the B12 will support its ability to take part in biological processes and make the most of what B12 you take.

B12 cannot make you ill so any symptoms you experience will just be transient and due to everything trying to find homeostasis/balance.

So I hope this answers your question and I am very sorry for how long it is.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
what kind of side effects would starting up B-12 sublingual generate?
Oh I forgot one very important start up effect that increases as you replete the B12, time dilation.
Your days will seem longer.

I believe this to be because the processing power of the brain increases as you replete the B12.
What you can process in a given amount of time increases, so time seems slower because you can do more in that time frame.

Thats my experience. If you are not lacking B12 then this will not happen is my opinion.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
12,831
Oh I forgot one very important start up effect that increases as you replete the B12, time dilation.
Your days will seem longer.

I was managing to need less sleep, back last January before the various catastrophe's struck. This probiotic I was using and maybe the b-caryonphylleen, I was needing less sleep. Now I"m needing to figure out what awake is.