Food sensitivities raises after antimicrobials/antivirus

[jason30]

Hi all,

After intake of 1 capsule of serrapeptase or cat's claw then the next day my food sensitivities are raised a lot.
After the lunch I fall almost in sleep when I am behind the laptop. This won't happen normally.

So my food sensitivities are raised a lot, and this results in a far more worse Electronical Hyper Sensitivity (EHS).

I suspect SIBO and I am gonna test this next week.

• Serrapeptase is a biofilm disrupting enzyme. It helps break down bacterial and candida yeast biofilms. I know that most anti-biofilm supplements can negatively affect the good guys.
• Cat's claw is antimicrobial, antifungal and antiparastic and antivirus.

I wonder what could be the cause.

My assumptions:

1. Is it because of any die-off? Herx reaction?
2. Both Cat's Claw and serrapeptase are antimicrobial, thus die-off from SIBO?
3. Or die-off from candida/fungals?
4. Or virus reaction? (but serrapeptase have no antivirus properties as far as I know)

Do any of you have any idea or experience with this?
I hope I can limit the reaction somehow because I do have some benefits from these antimicrobial/antibiofilm/antivirus supplements.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Judee]

I'm not familiar with using Serrapeptase and it has been a while since I was on prescribed anti-fungals so I'm not sure if I experienced the same thing too.

I do use Mycopryl, a caprylic acid based substance that kills candida, but don't get any bad or magnified reactions that you are describing. However my environmental doctor does say that everything is cumulative so your thoughts might be on track with the die off making everything else worse. It might be creating an overload for your immunity at that point. Perhaps you could try lowering the doses or taking them on alternating days.

I put this on another post a while ago. I don't know if it would be of any help to you:

I've been wanting to try Jarrow S. Boullardii with MOS because the candida is suppose to bind to the MOS and then pass out of the system without breaking open and releasing it's toxins like when it dies. It is suppose to work similarly to how cranberry or d-mannose works in the bladder for e coli bacteria. I haven't tried it yet though because I happen to be allergic to yeast and S. Boullardii is actually a yeast and not a bacteria. I just thought I'd mention that because it is suppose to mitigate some of the die off which happens if you take an anti-fungal instead.

Your thoughts are very interesting though and some things I will have to keep in mind as I try new herbals that might have antifungal properties.

Hope someone else can give you a more scientific answer as to what might be going on biologically for you.

 

[Carl]

We have had a conversion which you started just over a year ago, very brief because you never replied when I finally saw and replied to your message at the end of last year. I had not logged in for some months due to various issues including a dodgy Chinese eBayer who wanted to rip me off to the tune of £200 and it took a long time to get my money back being around Christmas. I replied as soon as I saw the message in December just after I had resolved the eBay case. You did not reply to my message so I left it because if you do not have the time then I certainly do not.

I have beaten biofilms and doing it correctly optimizes the effect. I have also beaten an infection which was contributing to my digestive permeability and that also resolved the associated effect in my transverse colon where IBS is typically located. I have eliminated the biofilm which is causing my CFS but so far I have not been able to destroy the infection itself. I think that it could possibly be a mycoplasma spp. I do have multiple infections but only the one produces the actual CFS effects. However all of them contribute to Increased Digestive Permeability. They all must be destroyed. After that all autoimmunity will be gone and many risk factors for other illnesses will also be gone.

I do take serrapeptase and nattokinase fairly often for other reasons ie circulation and do not have any negative effects from them, it is all positive. Even though some anti biofilm formulations use Serrapeptase, alone serrapeptase is unlikely to remove a biofilm in my experience.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine can have some effect against biofilms and it is used in conventional medicine for that effect but I did not find it much use. Fairly high concentrations are needed. Boswellia can also help prevent biofilm formation which might also help to eliminate them. I received some Boswellia powder today which I intend using when I next make an attempt. However I need some strong antimicrobials before I do that but guessing what the infection is and what will affect it is very difficult. I do have a collection of antimicrobials which they have never encountered before so hopefully I will get lucky when I next make an attempt.

https://klaire.com/k-int-interfase
This is the best version IMO but it tends to be more expensive. EDTA is fairly inexpensive and large quantities are needed. A couple of 0 capsules EDTA should be okay.
425mg enzymes only per capsule and no space used up by the inexpensive EDTA.

https://klaire.com/k-intp60-interfase-plus
337.5mg enzymes AND EDTA per capsule
http://www.kirkmangroup.com/biofilm-defensetm-capsules-60-ct.html

 

[jason30]

I'm not familiar with using Serrapeptase and it has been a while since I was on prescribed anti-fungals so I'm not sure if I experienced the same thing too.

I do use Mycopryl, a caprylic acid based substance that kills candida, but don't get any bad or magnified reactions that you are describing. However my environmental doctor does say that everything is cumulative so your thoughts might be on track with the die off making everything else worse. It might be creating an overload for your immunity at that point. Perhaps you could try lowering the doses or taking them on alternating days.

I put this on another post a while ago. I don't know if it would be of any help to you:

I've been wanting to try Jarrow S. Boullardii with MOS because the candida is suppose to bind to the MOS and then pass out of the system without breaking open and releasing it's toxins like when it dies. It is suppose to work similarly to how cranberry or d-mannose works in the bladder for e coli bacteria. I haven't tried it yet though because I happen to be allergic to yeast and S. Boullardii is actually a yeast and not a bacteria. I just thought I'd mention that because it is suppose to mitigate some of the die off which happens if you take an anti-fungal instead.

Your thoughts are very interesting though and some things I will have to keep in mind as I try new herbals that might have antifungal properties.

Hope someone else can give you a more scientific answer as to what might be going on biologically for you.

Thanks a lot for your reaction Judee,

I'm not familiar with using Serrapeptase and it has been a while since I was on prescribed anti-fungals so I'm not sure if I experienced the same thing too.

I do use Mycopryl, a caprylic acid based substance that kills candida, but don't get any bad or magnified reactions that you are describing. However my environmental doctor does say that everything is cumulative so your thoughts might be on track with the die off making everything else worse. It might be creating an overload for your immunity at that point. Perhaps you could try lowering the doses or taking them on alternating days.

I put this on another post a while ago. I don't know if it would be of any help to you:

I've been wanting to try Jarrow S. Boullardii with MOS because the candida is suppose to bind to the MOS and then pass out of the system without breaking open and releasing it's toxins like when it dies. It is suppose to work similarly to how cranberry or d-mannose works in the bladder for e coli bacteria. I haven't tried it yet though because I happen to be allergic to yeast and S. Boullardii is actually a yeast and not a bacteria. I just thought I'd mention that because it is suppose to mitigate some of the die off which happens if you take an anti-fungal instead.

Your thoughts are very interesting though and some things I will have to keep in mind as I try new herbals that might have antifungal properties.

Hope someone else can give you a more scientific answer as to what might be going on biologically for you.

Thanks a lot for your reaction Judee. I have read about Jarrow S. Boullardii before. I have a yeast overgrowth so I might react to this.

I also believe that my leaky gut plays a role in the symptoms.

I am thinking about supporting phase 2 of the liver and see if that helps with the assumed die-off.

Thanks again!

 

[jason30]

We have had a conversion which you started just over a year ago, very brief because you never replied when I finally saw and replied to your message at the end of last year. I had not logged in for some months due to various issues including a dodgy Chinese eBayer who wanted to rip me off to the tune of £200 and it took a long time to get my money back being around Christmas. I replied as soon as I saw the message in December just after I had resolved the eBay case. You did not reply to my message so I left it because if you do not have the time then I certainly do not.

I have beaten biofilms and doing it correctly optimizes the effect. I have also beaten an infection which was contributing to my digestive permeability and that also resolved the associated effect in my transverse colon where IBS is typically located. I have eliminated the biofilm which is causing my CFS but so far I have not been able to destroy the infection itself. I think that it could possibly be a mycoplasma spp. I do have multiple infections but only the one produces the actual CFS effects. However all of them contribute to Increased Digestive Permeability. They all must be destroyed. After that all autoimmunity will be gone and many risk factors for other illnesses will also be gone.

I do take serrapeptase and nattokinase fairly often for other reasons ie circulation and do not have any negative effects from them, it is all positive. Even though some anti biofilm formulations use Serrapeptase, alone serrapeptase is unlikely to remove a biofilm in my experience.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine can have some effect against biofilms and it is used in conventional medicine for that effect but I did not find it much use. Fairly high concentrations are needed. Boswellia can also help prevent biofilm formation which might also help to eliminate them. I received some Boswellia powder today which I intend using when I next make an attempt. However I need some strong antimicrobials before I do that but guessing what the infection is and what will affect it is very difficult. I do have a collection of antimicrobials which they have never encountered before so hopefully I will get lucky when I next make an attempt.

https://klaire.com/k-int-interfase
This is the best version IMO but it tends to be more expensive. EDTA is fairly inexpensive and large quantities are needed. A couple of 0 capsules EDTA should be okay.
425mg enzymes only per capsule and no space used up by the inexpensive EDTA.

https://klaire.com/k-intp60-interfase-plus
337.5mg enzymes AND EDTA per capsule
http://www.kirkmangroup.com/biofilm-defensetm-capsules-60-ct.html

Thanks for your reaction Carl.

My apologies, I totally forgot about our conversation. My fuzzy head with a memory of a cow forgot to react to your great detailed post. I will react soon to it.

How did you determined the infection which was responsible for the Digestive Permeability?

I am curious if Boswellia helps you with the biofilm.
Thanks for the NAC tip.

And thanks for the enzymes suggestions. The thing is with most enzymes supplements, is that the known enzymes such as amalyse is made from mold. And I react to that.

Thanks again!

 

[datura]

I would be cautious with the potent biofilm disruptors, especially if you’re experimenting. Just a tip that NAC can worsen histamine issues if you are sensitive to that kind of thing.

I did an herbal microbial phase in the Spring, and it seemed to help. A month or so after stopping, my GI symptoms worsened, so I did another round (same herbs, berberine and neem). That time, things got way worse. At that point I chose to focus on rebuilding with probiotics. I could tolerate kombucha again. Recently I went back on the antimicrobials to see if they would help my fungal overgrowth — right off the bat, my GI symptoms worsened. Here is what I think happened: the first round of antimicrobials was effective and I think I had sincere die-off. The subsequent times were not die-off, but my symptoms were feedback that antimicrobials were doing more harm than good. Lesson learned that negative reactions are not always die-off, and in fact, these strong supplements are disrupting things even further.

I was up in my mind, a state of dissociation. Researching, but following the wrong leads, getting stuck in details that weren’t relevant to my body. Too much of this is counterproductive. Supporting the vagus nerve could be more helpful.

 

[jason30]

Thanks for your reaction Datura. I am aware of things that could getting worse.
I take tiny doses for this reason.

My GI symptoms worsened also after taking Cat's Claw (antiviral and antimicrobial).
What you are describing is what is happening by me I guess. I believe it's a die-off reaction because I have SIBO. But I do not know this for sure and therefore I have to be careful to make things not worse.
It's difficult when there are many things going on, one has an effect on the other.
And very counterproductive indeed!

I am recently into the vagus nerve and I am taking cold showers already and at the same I try to sing . Looking for more things to stimulate it.

 

[datura]

Yes, cold water on your face can be good as well if you are in a hurry. Important to support your vagus nerve before you eat especially. Also take some deep breaths from your belly before you eat, and don’t do anything emotionally stimulating while you eat (such as, don’t read the news). Ever try gargling? That’s good for vagal tone.

Yes, I will likely not go for berberine or neem as they are too strong. Would never try oregano personally. I’m taking olive leaf now, it’s more gentle, antifungal and antiviral as well. Getting a little die-off but GI health is improving. Taking aloe juice before breakfast to soothe mucosa.