Folic acid and folinic acid can block metafolin inducing deficiency called "ddtox"

[Freddd]

AOR makes a B complex that uses active vitamins including methylfolate, no folic or folinic acid. I haven't tried it yet but see it is available at Amazon.

Hi dnholmes,

I can't find the one you mean. All I'm finding is one missing thiamin and with folic acid.
http://sportsnutritiononline.com/vitamins-minerals/b-complex/aor-advanced-b-complex-90-cap.html

Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Capsule
Servings Per Container90
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
B2(Riboflavin-5-Phosphate) 2.5mg 147%
B3(Niacin - From Inositol Hexanicotinate) 115mg 575%
B6(Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) 33mg 1,650%
Folic Acid 333mcg 83%
B12(Methylcobalamin) 333mcg 5,550%
Biotin 166mcg 55%
B5(Pantethine) 100mcg 1,000%
Benfotiamine 33mcg
Choline(Bitartrate) 200mg
Inositol(Inositol, Inositol Hexanicotinate) 128mg
Daily Value not established

Also at 3 caps per day it is almost $1/day which is a lot for a relatively low potency b complex without thiamin and with folic acid.

 

[JPV]

Excerpts from: Scientists Question Folic Acid Fortification

Folic acid is a synthetic form of folate, a B vitamin found in a wide variety of foods including liver and green leafy vegetables. Folates are metabolised in the gut, whereas in a paper to be published in the British Journal of Nutrition in October IFR scientists suggest that folic acid is metabolised in the liver. The liver is an easily saturated system, and fortification could lead to significant unmetabolised folic acid entering the blood stream, with the potential to cause a number of health problems.

It has already been shown that folic acid forticifation can exhibit Jekyll and Hyde characteristics, providing protection in some people while causing harm to others. For example, studies have confirmed that unmetabolised folic acid accelerates cognitive decline in the elderly with low vitamin B12 status, while those with normal vitamin B12 status may be protected against cognitive impairment. Most over 65s in the UK have low B12 status.

Since the 1980s a consensus formed that that folic acid is metabolised in the small intestine in a similar way to naturally-occuring folates. This consensus was used to assess the safety of folic acid fortification.

"We challenge the underlying scientific premise behind this consensus", said Dr Astley. "This has important implications for the use of folic acid in fortification, because even at low doses it could lead to over consumption of folic acid with its inherent risks".

 

[dannybex]

Great find JPV

Thanks for that link JPV -- seems to confirm what we've been discussing...

"It could take 20 years for any potential harmful effects of unmetabolised folic acid to become apparent."

Makes sense, and certainly rings a bell for me.

 

[jeffrez]

Thanks JPV - great article! Like danny said, that fits in perfectly with everything Freddd has been presenting here. It's amazing with all the so-called advancements the medical community claims that they don't even really understand something as basic and fundamental as folate metabolism.

 

[aprilk1869]

Hi dnholmes,

I can't find the one you mean. All I'm finding is one missing thiamin and with folic acid.
http://sportsnutritiononline.com/vitamins-minerals/b-complex/aor-advanced-b-complex-90-cap.html

Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Capsule
Servings Per Container90
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
B2(Riboflavin-5-Phosphate) 2.5mg 147%
B3(Niacin - From Inositol Hexanicotinate) 115mg 575%
B6(Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) 33mg 1,650%
Folic Acid 333mcg 83%
B12(Methylcobalamin) 333mcg 5,550%
Biotin 166mcg 55%
B5(Pantethine) 100mcg 1,000%
Benfotiamine 33mcg †
Choline(Bitartrate) 200mg †
Inositol(Inositol, Inositol Hexanicotinate) 128mg †
† Daily Value not established

Also at 3 caps per day it is almost $1/day which is a lot for a relatively low potency b complex without thiamin and with folic acid.

I see that they are now being sold on iherb.

The capsules don't contain thiamin but they do contain Benfotiamine which is claimed to be better quality. Also, the folic acid is 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate. I'm not sure whether this is as good as Metafolin by Merck or not.

The AOR product might be more expensive but if it means you don't have to take so much in the way of Metafolin maybe it will work out as good value. Also, I'm not convinced that 3 capsules are needed. Maybe 2 would be OK.

I haven't done much research on all the forms of B vitamins in this formula but I have had a look at Niacin-from Inositol Hexanicotinate and came across this:-

One popular form of dietary supplement is inositol hexanicotinate (IHN), which is inositol that has been esterified with niacin on all six of inositol's alcohol groups. IHN is usually sold as "flush-free" or "no-flush" niacin in units of 250, 500, or 1000 mg/tablets or capsules. It is sold as an over-the-counter formulation, and often is marketed and labeled as niacin, thus misleading consumers into thinking they are getting the active form of the medication. While this form of niacin does not cause the flushing associated with the immediate-release products, the evidence that it has lipid-modifying functions is contradictory, at best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin#Inositol_hexanicotinate

 

[leaves]

Oeee that one looks great!! It doesn't have pyridoxine !!!
Eta: I see it has folic. I'm going to design my multi at www.customcapsule.com without folic, ribo and b6 and will take thornes methylguard on the side (has methylfolate, p5p and active riboflavin )

 

[dmholmes]

Hi dnholmes,

I can't find the one you mean. All I'm finding is one missing thiamin and with folic acid.
http://sportsnutritiononline.com/vitamins-minerals/b-complex/aor-advanced-b-complex-90-cap.html

Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Capsule
Servings Per Container90
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
B2(Riboflavin-5-Phosphate) 2.5mg 147%
B3(Niacin - From Inositol Hexanicotinate) 115mg 575%
B6(Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) 33mg 1,650%
Folic Acid 333mcg 83%
B12(Methylcobalamin) 333mcg 5,550%
Biotin 166mcg 55%
B5(Pantethine) 100mcg 1,000%
Benfotiamine 33mcg †
Choline(Bitartrate) 200mg †
Inositol(Inositol, Inositol Hexanicotinate) 128mg †
† Daily Value not established

Also at 3 caps per day it is almost $1/day which is a lot for a relatively low potency b complex without thiamin and with folic acid.

Hi Freddd, as aprilk1869 points out, it is available at iHerb now also. B1 as benfotiamine and folate as methylfolate. This seems to be the most accurate label, not sure if they changed or are changing formulation but I'll order and find out. Video confirmation here.

* Just noticed that on iHerb you can view the ingredients and zoom in to confirm. *

 

[dmholmes]

The capsules don't contain thiamin but they do contain Benfotiamine which is claimed to be better quality. Also, the folic acid is 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate. I'm not sure whether this is as good as Metafolin by Merck or not.

I believe Merck holds the patent on methyltetrahydrofolate, so they would have to be using theirs. Same for Life Extension's Optimized Folate. But I may be mistaken.

I haven't done much research on all the forms of B vitamins in this formula but I have had a look at Niacin-from Inositol Hexanicotinate and came across this:-

That's correct, inositol does not have the effect on lipoproteins that niacin does.

 

[Freddd]

Excerpts from: Scientists Question Folic Acid Fortification


Folic acid is a synthetic form of folate, a B vitamin found in a wide variety of foods including liver and green leafy vegetables. Folates are metabolised in the gut, whereas in a paper to be published in the British Journal of Nutrition in October IFR scientists suggest that folic acid is metabolised in the liver. The liver is an easily saturated system, and fortification could lead to significant unmetabolised folic acid entering the blood stream, with the potential to cause a number of health problems.


It has already been shown that folic acid forticifation can exhibit Jekyll and Hyde characteristics, providing protection in some people while causing harm to others. For example, studies have confirmed that unmetabolised folic acid accelerates cognitive decline in the elderly with low vitamin B12 status, while those with normal vitamin B12 status may be protected against cognitive impairment. Most over 65s in the UK have low B12 status.


Since the 1980s a consensus formed that that folic acid is metabolised in the small intestine in a similar way to naturally-occuring folates. This consensus was used to assess the safety of folic acid fortification.

"We challenge the underlying scientific premise behind this consensus", said Dr Astley. "This has important implications for the use of folic acid in fortification, because even at low doses it could lead to over consumption of folic acid with its inherent risks".

Hi Jpy,

Don't you love being at the wrong end of those "inherent risks"? Since it not only not effective in some people but can actually cause a paradoxical folate deficiency that sure ups the risk factor.

If 50% of people taking vitamin C got scurvy any way, we wouldn't think Vit C was very effective. Yet in cobalamins and folates these relatively ineffective inactive forms are used that leave people stranded, hung out to dry indefinitely with mysterious diseases because they don't recognize folate and b12 deficiency symptoms while taking the inactive vitamin forms. They say "impossible" and dismiss it from their minds. They become apologists for inactive forms that make some people sick.

 

[Freddd]

I believe Merck holds the patent on methyltetrahydrofolate, so they would have to be using theirs. Same for Life Extension's Optimized Folate. But I may be mistaken.



That's correct, inositol does not have the effect on lipoproteins that niacin does.

Hi David,

I believe Merck holds the patent on methyltetrahydrofolate

Actually they hold the patent for making a stable form of said methylfolate called Metafolin, and it is always licensed as Metafolin and they have very strict and limited licensing requirements upholding pharmaceutical quality. Anything that isn't specifically "Metafolin" is not made by Merck and is not the stable form they invented.

 

[Freddd]

Hi Freddd, as aprilk1869 points out, it is available at iHerb now also. B1 as benfotiamine and folate as methylfolate. This seems to be the most accurate label, not sure if they changed or are changing formulation but I'll order and find out. Video confirmation here.

* Just noticed that on iHerb you can view the ingredients and zoom in to confirm. *

It's a different product than the other one. However, their ingredients list specifies "folic acid" as the mfolate made by someone and they are not the same and have left out the pantethine from the description above it and clearly that page needs some debugging as it is self contradictory.

http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research-Basic-B-Complex-60-Veggie-Caps/18791?at=0

Here is a Thorne B-complex but with mix of calcium folinate with the mfolate.

I'm still looking for possible candidates.

http://www.metafolin.com/about-metafolin/properties-a-benefits
Metafolin is the body's preferred form of folate, because it is...

...the naturally-occurring predominant form of the folate vitamer
...a readily bioavailable folate vitamer (folic acid is a provitamin and needs to be activated)
...directly usable by the body, independent of genetic variants of folate dependent enzymes
...directly involved in lowering homocysteine blood levels
...the only form of folate able to cross the blood-brain barrier
...safe as demonstrated by extensive toxicological studies
...a proprietary ingredient, produced and marketed by Merck Eprova AG, Switzerland, only
...apart from folic acid the only folate source approved in the U.S. and Europe

In addition, Metafolin apparently does not mask a vitamin B12-deficiency and presents no risk of an accumulation of unmodified folic acid in the body.

 

[aprilk1869]

I think we should all contact Jarrow Formulas and ask them to update their B-Right with Metafolin. I bet they could lose quite a bit of business when you consider how many people here and on the wrong diagnosis forum are concerned about synthetic folic acid.

 

[drex13]

It's a different product than the other one. However, their ingredients list specifies "folic acid" as the mfolate made by someone and they are not the same and have left out the pantethine from the description above it and clearly that page needs some debugging as it is self contradictory.

http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research-Basic-B-Complex-60-Veggie-Caps/18791?at=0

Here is a Thorne B-complex but with mix of calcium folinate with the mfolate.

I'm still looking for possible candidates.

http://www.metafolin.com/about-metafolin/properties-a-benefits
Metafolin is the body's preferred form of folate, because it is...

...the naturally-occurring predominant form of the folate vitamer
...a readily bioavailable folate vitamer (folic acid is a provitamin and needs to be activated)
...directly usable by the body, independent of genetic variants of folate dependent enzymes
...directly involved in lowering homocysteine blood levels
...the only form of folate able to cross the blood-brain barrier
...safe as demonstrated by extensive toxicological studies
...a proprietary ingredient, produced and marketed by Merck Eprova AG, Switzerland, only
...apart from folic acid the only folate source approved in the U.S. and Europe

In addition, Metafolin apparently does not mask a vitamin B12-deficiency and presents no risk of an accumulation of unmodified folic acid in the body.

Freddd,
Heres a link to a B-complex from Douglas labs. It has metafolin and mb-12. No folic or folinic acid. Might be a good option.

https://douglaslabs.com/product.cfm?litm=200765-60X

 

[Freddd]

Freddd,
Heres a link to a B-complex from Douglas labs. It has metafolin and mb-12. No folic or folinic acid. Might be a good option.

https://douglaslabs.com/product.cfm?litm=200765-60X

Yes, It has some good points. It's doses of individual items is more B-50 like which is not the best balance and it doesn't have inositol or pantethine. So far they all have some deficiencies. I will definitely conside may this once a day and B-right once a day cutting the folic acid window down to 4 hours.

 

[dannybex]

Mag Chloride is essential for me with the B6 in particular, and I do have sulfation problems, very serious dysfunction of Liver phase III, measured in a provoked liver clearance detox profile. I think mag chloride and B6 may be essential for some non-responders on B12 protocols. But I would start with the mag chloride first, quarter tablets if you are concerned you might react negatively. Get some magnesium in you before re-starting up the B6 part of the methylation process.

Kurt -- doesn't magnesium require one of the b-vitamins in order to 'get into' (?) the cells or to work properly?

d.

 

[anne_likes_red]

Kurt -- doesn't magnesium require one of the b-vitamins in order to 'get into' (?) the cells or to work properly?

d.

Dan I'm not sure of all the technical aspects. I often see Mag/B6 advised together in reference to autism treatment.
But it might pay to be careful with the chloride - it's good stuff, but effective. I took some (oil) on it's own a month or so ago and the results were not good! Now with B6 (I'm using Solgar) on board, and a more gradual build up of dosage, I'm able to tolerate the effect. Go slow ))
Anne.

 

[JPV]

I'm still looking for possible candidates.

How does this look to you? The ratios seem the same as Jarrow's and the price is right, $8.36 for 100 tablets.


Freeda - B-Complex, No Folic-No Paba - 100 Tabs

Description
The major B Vitamins have been found to support various separate functions in the body as well as work together to help maintain metabolism. Often, the body needs a balance of B Vitamins for them to work correctly. A good B complex not only helps keep this balance, but can also assist in their individual roles.

A 25 mg B-Complex formula without Folic Acid or PABA, this formula is recommended mainly for sensitive individuals and chemotherapy patients whose doctor may want them to limit their folic acid intake.

Serving Size: 1 Tablet

Ingredients
Thiamin (Vitamin B1) 25 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 25 mg
Niacin (as niacinamide) 100 mg
Vitamin B6 25 mg
Vitamin B12 25 mcg
Pantothenic acid (as d-calcium pantothenate) 25 mg

Other ingredients: Cellulose, calcium carbonate, calcium stearate, silica

 

[Freddd]

How does this look to you? The ratios seem the same as Jarrow's and the price is right, $8.36 for 100 tablets.


Freeda - B-Complex, No Folic-No Paba - 100 Tabs

Hi JPV,

Thankyou for keeping your eyes open, I can't even consider this one. It has too few components and the wrong forms. Further it almost certainly has cyanocbl in it for the b12, and while minimal amount, the more of this I've eliminated from my diet the better I do.

I might end up doing all separates though I would rather not.

 

[JPV]

Here's another one. It looks to be manufactured in the UK and I'm afraid there might be some difficulty importing it. The dosages also look a bit high to me.


BioCare B-Plex (Without Vitamin B12 & Folic Acid)

B-Plex is a specialised formulation of B vitamins, which excludes vitamin B12 and folic acid. Some practitioners feel that certain metabolic types, such as those who form high levels of histamine, can tolerate this formulation more readily. Other people may find BioCare B Complex more suitable.

Nutritional Information per Daily Intake (1 capsule)

Thiamine (vitamin B1) 50mg
Riboflavin (vitamin B2) 50mg
Niacin (vitamin B3) 50mg
Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) 50mg
Vitamin B6* 50mg
Choline 50mg; Inositol 50mg
PABA (para amino benzoic acid) 50mg
Vitamin C 40mg
Pangamic Acid 30mg
Magnesium 13.9mg
Biotin 200mcg

Features of BioCare B-Plex

Enzyme activated for aid digestion

B-Plex contains three forms of magnesium to support the function of the nervous system

B-Plex does not contain vitamin B12 or folic acid

B-Plex contains magnesium to assist the formation of essential metabolic enzymes in the body

B-Plex is yeast free

Suitable for vegetarians and vegans

Interesting to note that there is mention of this product being intended for those with problems related to high levels of histamine. I've read elsewhere that folic acid and B12 raise histamine. Any thoughts on this Freddd?

 

[kurt]

Kurt -- doesn't magnesium require one of the b-vitamins in order to 'get into' (?) the cells or to work properly?
d.

I don't know about the B, thought it was the other way, that some B vitamins require magnesium. Anyway, methylation requires magnesium. And some chronic infections (such as Lyme-related), deplete magnesium, spirochetes use magnesium rather than iron like most other bugs. So we may be losing magnesium chronically and need regular supplements just due to a wierd infection load.

I was told by a integrated med doctor years ago that many forms of magnesium require choline to get in cells. Some people take choline citrate along with magnesium. But most people have adequate choline. However, magnesium chloride seems to absorb well on its own, and also seems to help the digestion (probably the chloride ions support digestive HCl production).

I might end up doing all separates though I would rather not.

Why not make your own? Compounding can't be that difficult. Just buy the powders, measure and mix, put in capsules, etc.