Flu vaccine and ME/CFS - MEA info leaflet for 2017 - 2018 vaccine

[Wonko]

Yes and its extremely toxic to the body.
Pam

My understanding is it's a vital* part of cellular metabolism. Your body produces formaldehyde, in higher quantities than you are likely to inhale, ingest, or obtain by other means. Every breath you breathe out contains formaldehyde, yes, because the body naturally produces it it has a way of removing the excess. It's a natural part of life. The fact it can become toxic at higher concentrations doesn't mean it's toxic at lower levels.

Whether or not something is bad for you depends on concentration, people tend to get this wrong all the time, I've never grasped why,it's really a very simple concept, in a similar way attempting to lower a 2000Kg box from a shelf above your head may have negative consequences, whilst lifting a 200g box down is unlikely to, and may, by some, be considered "good" for you. Being hit by a small party balloon is unlikely to cause lasting damage but being hit by a lorry full of them may.

All ridiculous examples, including yours.

*normal/vital, formaldehyde is produced as a byproduct, because of this the cell has the capability to recycle it and gain energy from that process. Excess is disposed of through biologically authorised channels, such as respiration. If you produced none then it would indicate a significant metabolic failure, or that you were currently located in a universe incompatible with normal biological whatsits.

 

[HowToEscape?]

@Wonko
Well said!

 

[bertiedog]

ll ridiculous examples, including yours.

You are very welcome to go ahead and take as much formaldehyde as you wish and if your enzymes all work perfectly your brain will probably be ok but if your enzyme systems aren't functioning optimally as in a low energy body then I for one would certainly want to avoid adding in any extra in the form of a vaccine.

Personal choice.

Pam

 

[bertiedog]

The Toxic Effects of Formaldehyde on the Nervous System

Ahmet Songur, Oguz Aslan Ozen, and Mustafa Sarsilmaz

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa_Sarsilmaz/publication/40444200

 

[Wonko]

You are very welcome to go ahead and take as much formaldehyde as you wish and if your enzymes all work perfectly your brain will probably be ok but if your enzyme systems aren't functioning optimally as in a low energy body then I for one would certainly want to avoid adding in any extra in the form of a vaccine.

Personal choice.

Pam

You are aware vaccines don't generally come by the pint? So the amounts are really very, very small, "possibly" less than you'd inhale if you were listening to someone who was discourteous enough to be breathing?

 

[Wonko]

The Toxic Effects of Formaldehyde on the Nervous System

Ahmet Songur, Oguz Aslan Ozen, and Mustafa Sarsilmaz

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa_Sarsilmaz/publication/40444200

I would ask, have you read it?

Coz it certainly seems to support my position

 

[Artorias]

Flu would definitely be bad for someone like me with the double whammy of ME and diabetes.

However, I had a flu jab when I was starting to become ill with ME and the reaction I had was horrible. The instant the shot went in my arm I knew something was wrong. Metallic taste in my mouth, ears started ringing, felt very strange and came very close to passing out. They had to find a place for me to lie down for half an hour until I was ready to get back on my feet and leave. The week after I felt terrible, and although I rebounded back to 'normal' I never felt quite the same afterwards. A few months later I crashed into full blown ME and never recovered, although I doubt that crash was due to the jab.

10 years later and I'm no better. I do fear getting the flu because I'm pretty sure I would have to go to hospital. But I'm even more fearful of another bad reaction that could send me from housebound to bedbound.

 

[Jennifer J]

Hi, Dr. Shepherd (@charles shepherd).

Thank you for the flu information. I was wondering if you could answer a couple questions.

I want to get a flu shot. I believe they take 2 weeks til they start giving you immunity. I'm going to be starting an antiviral (oxymatrine), would that interfere with the the flu shot especially those first 2 weeks? I'm thinking I ought to get the shot first and wait a few weeks til I start the antiviral.

Our worst month for the flu in California seems to be February. According to the CDC data I've looked at in the past, February is when the most people come down with the flu (much higher than earlier and earliest months). What I'm wondering since as time goes on the vaccine is less effective, would it be better for me to wait til later November to get the flu shot to help with it's effectiveness in February?

I can't find another thread right now to put this in. Also, wondering once on an antiviral would that interfere with any other shots I may get such as tetanus or Hep A?

And we're having a Hep A outbreak in my part of town. I had Hep A shots 20 years ago, I read they may be good for 25 years or longer. Would this be different for us with ME?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, Dr. Shepherd. I understand if you can't yet hopefully you can answer them (I can't get to an ME doctor) and this information may be useful for others, too.

Thank you for any information you can share and a big thank you for all that you do for us!

Jennifer J

 

[hopeful2]

I was always afraid to get a flu vaccine and never got one. I've been living with ME/CFS for 29 years now. In 2015 I caught the flu twice within 2 months of each other. I had such a bad relapse of my symptoms that I ended up in the hospital virtually bedridden except for shuffling to the bathroom while hanging on to a walker and a nurse hanging on to me. I was unable to swallow and nearly ended up on a feeding tube. I nearly ended up just like Whitney and can't really explain how I managed to very slowly work my way out of it over a period of months. I'm still very limited in my ability to get around only getting 1000 steps on my Fitbit on a good day. I can only get out of the house if my husband drives and brings my mobility scooter along for me to use at our destination.

I never, ever want to go through what I went through in 2015 every again. I really felt like I was going to die at any moment. So, last year I got my first ever flu shot. I really struggled with the decision but my fear of getting the flu again and ending up back like I was in 2015 was greater than my fear of getting a flu shot at the time. After my flu shot, I probably felt like I was coming down with something for a few days but then I was back to my usual self after that. My husband who didn't get the flu shot last year ended up getting the flu twice and although I felt like I was coming down with something for a few days each time, I never actually got sick. I became a believer in flu shots after that. This year, I got a flu shot 2 weeks ago and can say that I had no reaction and feel no different than I did before I got it. My husband says he will get one this year too.

Everyone has to make the decision for themselves. If you had told me before 2015 that I would become a believer in flu shots one day, I would have said no way. Everybody's circumstances are different and we all have to do what we feel is best for us and hope for the best. Both ways come with risks.

 

[HowToEscape?]

Y’all pls think of some kind words for my funeral, ‘cuz I just had my Big Pharma, adjuvant-toxxed annual flu shot. I asked for extra Thiomersal, but the phlebotomist said they were saving that for any virgins who showed up. The supervising doc, a tall, bigendered European who expressed a great interest in the phlebotomist’s work, spoke of a shortage of vigins, which I thought was odd. Xe was in remarkable health, with a curious shine on xer teeth. It’s a funny place, but they’re open at odd hours.
Alas, no extra microgram of the shiny liquid metal for me.

It’s three hours later and the injection site is feeling an acute, um, well actually I can’t find the spot, because I don’t feel anything. Please forward a coffin for next week or month or year or whenever the deadly poison finally takes effect.

*** but srsly,
If you have MECFS, You should run it past a doc familiar with the disease before getting the shot. I got it today because I know it’s OK with me and I also know that a little hint of cold or flu knocks me down for months. I personally went against my doctor’s advice which was to not have it, because I considered that the risk from the bug was greater than the risk from the shot. It turned I was correct, but you should not take medical advice from random strangers who post on the Internet ;-)

 

[Wonko]

I do have a tendency of being both random and strange, but sometimes not in that order..

 

[edn]

Also many thanks from my side, this is a great resource.

That 27% or about 1 in 4 CFS patients say the flu vaccine made them 'much worse' in the online poll is worrying.

The trouble with that is that online polls are self selecting and usually aren't very representative. They tend to be answered either by people who have had an especially good or bad reaction or those who have a particular agenda.

 

[TakMak]

Had mine yesterday morning by my GP. I had to pay a tenner for it. By the end of the evening I felt mildly fevered on top of my usual symptoms. Today, apart from a slightly sore arm, nothing unusual to report.

 

[Jenny]

Is it slightly odd that some paragraphs are identical in the two cases in the BMJ report posted by @Dolphin? For example case one para 2 and case two para 4, and last two paras in both cases.

 

[SueJohnPat]

I will never have a flu shot again, as I became disabled shortly after receiving my first and last one. It was mandatory since I worked in healthcare, alas.

Same here. I don’t think it caused my illness but it seemed to be the stressor that did me in.

 

[Vineyard1]

We have just updated the MEA flu vaccine leaflet to cover the vaccine that is being used this year

This leaflet is currently free to download from the MEA website:

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...about-the-201718-flu-vaccine-04-october-2017/

Feedback on the use of flu vaccine is welcome - this will help us to keep the 'patient evidence' up to date

Dr Charles Shepherd
Hon Medical Adviser, MEA

MEA website online shop:
http://www.meassociation.org.uk/shop/

Complete MEA literature order form (August 2017):
http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/MEA-Order-Form-Autumn-2017.pdf

Hello,

I wanted to share my recent experience receiving the Td vaccine. I have had ME/CFS for 17 years with a history of a brachial plexopathy, Trigeminal Neuralgia, hypogammaglobunemia (on IVIG) and POTS ( diagnosed 2 years ago).
Several hours after receiving the vaccine, I woke up with nausea, involuntary jerking movements and muscle weakness. As the day continued I had a fever, a heart rate in the 130's unmanaged by my POTS med, severe headache with burning and pressure, burning and tingling throughout my body, dry heaves , reactivation of my trigeminal neuralgia, lymph node pain.and joint pain.
By Christmas Eve, I.went to.the ER as I felt so ill and couldn't stay upright for too long. They said I wasn't experiencing anaphylaxis and sent me home. The day after Christmas, I went back to the Hospital because my feet had stabbing nerve pain and weakness.that was.going up both my legs. I stayed in the Hospital for.several days and was seen by Neurology, the Hospitalist and the IVIG doctor. All reported never have seeing this.type of reaction. The Hospitalist believed I also had severe.serum sickness from the interaction between the IVIG and the Tetanus toxins protein but yesterday I found out that my IVIG doctor, who doesn't know anything about ME/CFS, told.the Neurologist (not me) that because I didn't want the vaccine (had it due to a.feral cat scratch) I psychologically manifested all these issues.
I currently am 25% better than when hospitalized and struggling to find a peace within me that allows me to address this Physician responsibly and respectfully. There is nothing more harmful than blaming a patient when the exact mechanism of.what is going on is not understood.

 

[sissypop]

I think this needs a timely bump.

 

[out2lunch]

I get my flu shot at a pediatric/kids clinic. They don't use mercury (thimerosal) in their flu vaccines. They (at least here or at this clinic, hopefully everywhere) don't get the ones that contain mercury for the kid's flu vaccines, maybe it's not in any of their other vaccines too.

How did you find a clinic willing to give you, an adult, the pediatric vaccine? My specialist doesn't give vaccines, and we can't find any clinic that's willing to give pediatric vaccines to adults. Thanks!

 

[Wayne]

For those considering getting a flu shot, the following article has some information on how it could affect susceptibility to COVID-19; could be helpful in making a decision:

Might Flu Shots Increase COVID-19 Pandemic Risk?

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

• People who received the trivalent influenza vaccine during the 2008-2009 flu season were between 1.4 and 2.5 times more likely to get infected with pandemic H1N1 in the spring and summer of 2009 than those who did not get the seasonal flu vaccine
• A double-blind, placebo-controlled study on ferrets confirmed the results, showing the seasonal influenza vaccine did worsen symptoms after subsequent exposure to the H1N1 virus
• A 2011 study found the seasonal flu vaccine may weaken children's immune systems and increase their chances of getting sick from influenza viruses not included in the vaccine
• In a 2012 study, children receiving inactivated influenza vaccines had a 4.4 times higher relative risk of contracting noninfluenza respiratory virus infections in the nine months following their inoculation
• A 2020 study found people were 36% more likely to get some form of coronavirus infection if they had been vaccinated against influenza

 

[Rufous McKinney]

So the amounts are really very, very small, "possibly" less than you'd inhale if you were listening to someone who was discourteous enough to be breathing?

The aluminum components, altho very very small- add up to exceeding the aluminum tolerance for adults- only we put that into tiny babies.