Everything You Ever Needed, Wanted, or Wished You Knew About Amino Acids, EAA’s and BCAA’s, Courtesy Of @PatJ

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I’ve always thought I was pretty literate re amino acids. Ha. As this article proves. It clears up all confusion, and makes stuff pretty close to crystal clear in an extremely easy-to-read format, facilitating decisions re amino supplementation, the value of BCAA’s versus EAA’s, and what might be of particular value to each of us in our crusade against this snippy little piss-pot of an illness.

Not a lot of possibly overwhelming detail, but pretty much everything you need to know, a great reference, well written, and an excellent jump-off point for anyone interested in using aminos as part of their recovery efforts. And it's easy to ignore the low-key hints about the author's own product.

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/how-to-use-amino-acids-supplements/

This comes to us courtesy of the ever-generous and deeply informed @PatJ, who posted it as a link in another thread today that not everyone here might read, so I thought I’d give it a wider airing. I’m just the vehicle, @PatJ is the source.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

It clears up all confusion, and makes stuff pretty close to crystal clear in an extremely easy-to-read format, facilitating decisions re amino supplementation,

Today I needed info on BCAAS and so I am grateful for this post. Except it seemed to indicate they are dangerous and should not be taken. So: why did I have somebody go to great length yesterday to buy me BCAAs?

Seemed like in PR I have seen BCAAs recommended repeatedly. Now it seems I wasted $899 pesos. (remove one Zero, divide in half= $45.

 

[sb4]

@Rufous McKinney The Ben Greenfield article is aimed at normal people. With CFS there could be differences where BCAAs are beneficial opposed to EAAs. If tryptophan / serotonin is an issue in the brain BCAAs could reduce that amount that gets in by competting for transporters.

BCAAs might be able to feed certain parts of the krebs cycle that are lack or perhaps they do something else. The only way to know is to try it. FWIW I didn't notice benefit nor negative to BCAAs.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

With CFS there could be differences where BCAAs are beneficial opposed to EAAs. If tryptophan / serotonin is an issue in the brain BCAAs could reduce that amount that gets in by competting for transporters.

Thanks for that clarification.... chances are my husband will consume it while I gaze with suspicion.

My insulin is a mess again and I don't get why. Which leads me to believe the insulin mess here has more to do with the ME disruption than it does with: what I ate.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Seemed like in PR I have seen BCAAs recommended repeatedly

@Rufous McKinney
Several people I've read here have had very positive experiences with BCAAs, and I don't recall bumpig into any negative feedback about them. @Mary in particular has deep experience with, and knowledge of, them. They've greatly reduced the duration of her PEMs and possibly their frequency, tho not sure I' m remembering correctly

The functions and pathways of BCAAs are numerous and confusing, at least to me, so I'm with @sb4 ..... as with so many other things in ME, this irritating surly little piss-pot of an illness, you have to be your own petri dish. Be vigilant, take notes, something will be revealed.

 

[pamojja]

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/how-to-use-amino-acids-supplements/

...You get the idea. This is without a doubt one of the most versatile and useful supplements you could have in your health and performance toolbox. You can click here to try a bottle of Kion Aminos now. They’re in tablet or tasty Cool Lime or Mixed Berry flavored powder forms, they’re 100% natural, and they’re very easy to use (this page contains full instructions).

Whenever a blogger advises a particular supplement one has to read the supplement facts very carefully. Since there is always the possibility of the blogger getting %s, and a conflict of interest. This product doesn't even disclose the exact amounts of EAA, which would be a big red flag to me.

For the simple reason that such 'proprietary blends' are usually only used to hide the cheaper ingredients are used for the bulk, and more expensive in very tiny amounts (though usually the size of amount is reflected in the ordering of listing - compare to the second product below giving exact amounts):

Supplement facts:
Servings per container: 30

5000 mg Proprietary blend:
L–Leucine, L–Valine, L–Isoleucine, L–Lysine HCl, L–Phenylalanine, L–Threonine, L–Methionine, L–Tryptophan

At $39.95 one gets only gets 150g of 'nobody-knows-which' EAAs with this product. For example at https://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/essential-amino-acids.html one gets 1kg of EAAs for €43.08.

With full disclosure of ingredients:

Unflavoured Essential Amino Acids
Nutrition        per 100g
Leucine               33.3g
Valine                14.7g
Lysine                14.7g
Phenylalanine         12g
Threonine             10g
Isoleucine             6g
Histidine              4.7g
Methionine             3.3g
Tryptophan             1.3g

 

[Carl]

There is no Histidine in that first supplement so it does not contain ALL EAA!

There are nine EAA as listed in the 2nd supplement and only eight in the 1st.

 

[SherDa]

There is no Histidine in that first supplement so it does not contain ALL EAA!

There are nine EAA as listed in the 2nd supplement and only eight in the 1st.

If I recall correctly, some EAA supplements do not contain histidine because it's debatable whether it's essential considering that serum histidine levels rise naturally when the other essential amino acids are ingested.

 

[SherDa]

Branched chain amino acids require biotin, so anyone whose lactic acidosis is caused by biotin deficiency may (or may not) have a limited response to BCAAs. As an athlete, I was using BCAAs daily when I got sick, so I don't think they help me at all. I prefer to take a variety of amino acids/protein sources.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Whenever a blogger advises a particular supplement one has to read the supplement facts very carefully. Since there is always the possibility of the blogger getting %s, and a conflict of interest. This product doesn't even disclose the exact amounts of EAA, which would be a big red flag to me.

Me too. Anyone who hides the supplement facts behind the quibble of a 'proprietary blend' loses my interest immediately.

I thought I made it clear that this info was linked to a sales site. I posted it because it has the widest range of info on aminos, even tho it's fairly superficial. It's a good starting point, without having to troll the internet for information on individual aminos or BCAA's etc.

And it's easy to ignore the low-key hints about the author's own product.

Yeah, here it is. My disclaimer re sales pitch.

Nonetheless, the info still is pretty good.

 

[Mary]

@YippeeKi YOW !!, @Rufous McKinney - I wouldn't go by the article linked in the first post as a guide for persons with ME/CFS and whether or not they should take BCAAs. e.g., one of the reasons BCAAs can be helpful with ME/CFS is because they can lower tryptophan levels - ME/CFS is linked to high tryptophan levels which cause fatigue. Here are links to some articles which help explain this. Read the first article I linked, if nothing else:

In a nutshell, these researchers proved that by inhibiting the L-system transporter, experiments verified that BCAA's and/or BCH suppressed the uptake of tryptophan thereby alleviating fatigue in the central nervous system and thus improved endurance capacity in the animals tested. Research has proven that fatigue in the CNS doesn't show a reduction in the serotonergic system function in the central and peripheral nerves but, in contrast, an enhanced nerve transmission response and this implies a relation to a change in the transmission of extracellular fluid 5-HT (5-hydroxytryptamine) that depends on an increase in tryptophan.

This change in the transmission of extracellular fluid 5-HT causes suppression in the surrounding brain nerves, resulting in fatigue in the CNS.

http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/Fword.htm

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=41341

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/544S.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11310928

http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html

Also, studies have shown that women in particular who have ME/CFS tend to burn aminos for fuel because of our screwed up metabolisms. So I would not rely on an article geared toward normal healthy persons when deciding whether to take BCAAs or other aminos.

@ljimbo423 has had amazing results with BCAAs. So you might check out some of his posts.

I was using BCAAs daily when I got sick, so I don't think they help me at all.

Well, you might need them more than ever. See the articles above. Obviously the BCAAs did not keep you from getting sick, but you still might need them. and, you might not need them, but I wouldn't write them off without doing some more reading and maybe an experiment or two.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

ME/CFS is linked to high tryptophan levels which cause fatigue.

Thank you @Mary for this additional info....appreciate it.

I understand the other link is some general info which is good to know.

I will further review the links...thanks!!

 

[ljimbo423]

@ljimbo423 has had amazing results with BCAAs. So you might check out some of his posts.

I'm still a huge fan of BCAA's. I've been taking them for about a year now I think and still take 12.5 grams a day. Definitely one of my top 2-3 supplements and I take A LOT of supplements!

I still get a big boost in energy from each of the 2 doses I take every day. That doesn't happen with many supplements. Usually the effects fade after a few days or a week or 2.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Does Collagen= BCAA's?

Because somebody just told me that.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I'm still a huge fan of BCAA's. I've been taking them for about a year now I think and still take 12.5 grams a day.

Are you a vegetarian or is eating meat simply irrelevant to this topic?

A serving of this stuff I bought and have not opened is: 17 grams. That would then contain-10 grams of the three BCAA's.

5 grams of carbs.

Something called: Cherry Pure; and some enzyme (?) Betaine anhidra

Does this sound like possibly an Ok product? (its from the GNC store, the weight builders, mall). Mango flavored, darn it.

 

[ljimbo423]

Are you a vegetarian or is eating meat simply irrelevant to this topic?

I eat a lot of meat but the BCAA's still give me a big boost in energy. I need a huge amount of protein, maybe because my mitochondria are mainly burning amino acids (protein), as the Fluge and Mella study found.

A serving of this stuff I bought and have not opened is: 17 grams. That would then contain-10 grams of the three BCAA's.

5 grams of carbs.

I would start at a much lower dose than that. Maybe 5 grams of powder, which would equal 3 grams BCAA's. The powder is 59% BCAA's, so 5 grams powder equals 3 grams BCAA's.

Something called: Cherry Pure; and some enzyme (?) Betaine anhidra

Does this sound like possibly an Ok product? (its from the GNC store, the weight builders, mall). Mango flavored, darn it.

I coundn't find the product online, so I can't really comment on how good it might be. Do you know the name brand? Like Carlson,
Nutraceutical, etc. ?

 

[SherDa]

Does Collagen= BCAA's?

Because somebody just told me that.

Collagen does not equal BCAAs. The primary aminos in collagen are glycine, proline and hydroxylysine with many other aminos but in much smaller amounts. It is also not a complete protein.

The branched chain amino acids are three of the essential amino acids - leucine, isoleucine and valine. They are often supplemented in a specific ratio, so while collagen technically contains BCAAs, it is not very much.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I eat a lot of meat but the BCAA's still give me a big boost in energy. I need a huge amount of protein, maybe because my mitochondria are mainly burning amino acids (protein), as the Fluge and Mella study found.

Geez.

That must be what is going on here. I just: gnaw on salted flesh, and then, insulin a mess because of I'm in a big crash from no rest....; I want MORE FLESH after that.

I melted last Friday just sitting on this sofa, chatting with some nice people, them doing 90%. Like some wilted flower, then FOOD APPEARED and i had MORE FLESH and i came back for 3 more hours. Maybe that explains it.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I coundn't find the product online, so I can't really comment on how good it might be. Do you know the name brand? Like Carlson,
Nutraceutical, etc. ?

Its: Beyond Raw (r) Precision BCAAs (mango-melon) Made in USA/ GNC store.

Thank you for recommending I start at a lower amount!!!

Is the biotin essential or should I just: try it?

 

[SherDa]

Thanks. I've experimented. I'm quite familiar with the concept of central fatigue as that is one of the reasons athletes use BCAAs.

There has also been speculation that a supraphysiologic serum level of BCAAs sends a message to the brain that too much muscle is being broken down and that the body should start burning fat instead (because the brain interprets high serum BCAAs as having come from the muscles even if it has come from an exogenous source).

Leucine (one of the BCAAs) is perhaps the most anabolic of all of the amino acids. However, I'm inclined to think that it may be helpful for some because it is a ketogenic amino acid, which would probably be helpful when carbohydrate metabolism is impaired. I don't doubt that it competes with tryptophan; I just personally don't notice a benefit from BCAA-only supplements. (They were amazing for better performance, recovery and lean mass maintenance before I got ill though!)