Every single symptom of "adrenal fatigue" matches caffiene withdraw

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http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2011/02/t...-and-the-hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal-axis/

Caffeine stimulates the adrenal glands the same as a stressor. Repeated doses of caffeine over a single day result in markedly increased cortisol levels, and this is independent of sex of the person or stressors they were already under.

In other words, every time you drink something with caffeine like coffee, you're activating the body's same fight or flight response. But instead of making cortisol and releasing adrenaline so the body can deal with a short term stressor like a tiger chasing you, the adrenals are doing so in response to your caffeine, or alcohol consumption exactly the same. This would unfortunately add to the burden on the adrenals to have to produce even more cortisol to deal with another added stressor. Repeated stressors from any source will further deplete resources such as Magnesium, and DHEA used to counteract the stressors. Cortisol prevents cells from losing sodium and accelerates the rate of potassium excretion.

Cortisol has the ability to regulate the action of the sodium/potassium pump in cells which give you energy, this is normally done with adequate magnesium to activate the pumps, along with calcium, sodium, potassium, and chloride. So regularly taking caffeinated drinks is like taking adrenal complex or hydrocortisone regularly as far as the effect, but since its making the adrenals produce the cortisol from body resources it will make things worse by further depleting those resources.
 
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At one point I wrote this about giving up coffee. it really screwed me up!

Thank you for writing that, it matches some of my experience. I also had to go back, every time I quit, cold turkey or weaned off over a period of 40 something days, I would stop “doing things”. Hobbies that interested me were not even a thought, I would stop going to the gym etc. I felt slower, thought slower, weighed down. I don’t like that I feel like I have to drink it but for now it’s a better option than the alternative.

Sometimes I wonder if I have an adrenal issue...I don’t ever really feel stressed or scared. Fight or flight is very rare for me. At this moment it seems to me that to start my day off right I have to take my Adderall 30mg (for ADHD), followed by 4 scoops amino energy from Costco about an hour later(it contains amino acids and 50mg caffeine per scoop). I skip breakfast and drink about 8oz of espresso a few hours later.

This doesn’t make me jittery at all, none of it at any point. I’ve taken my blood pressure on several occasions at different intervals after following this routine and it remains normal, my heart rate remains at 60. This following week I’ll try doing a few ekgs on myself on different days/times to see how that’s going.

I feel AWAKE, my thoughts are clear, my energy is unchanged but now I can somewhat direct that energy. When it comes to the energy part without enough caffeine I’m not tired, I can still do raw physical work, but fatigued...with caffeine I don’t feel the fatigue nearly as much. Not sure if that makes a lot of sense

I truly wish I didn’t have to drink it, but until I can figure out something better this is it.

I’ve eaten very “healthy” for about 3-4 years, recently started exercising a ton but have never been too inactive. At the moment I just started an all meat diet (carnivore/zero carb) to see how this helps. The carnivore diet is a very strict elimination diet To try and get rid of plant foods that may cause low level chronic inflammation and problems that come with that inflammation. It’s been about a week with the new the diet and this new level of caffeine consumption. I plan on doing The diet for thirty days and possibly switching over to caffeine pills instead of coffee to see if there’s any difference.

So far I feel pretty good...
 
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Hi Bjjpapi,

Roses are Red.
Mornings are Hard.
I suck at poetry.
Coffee.

Studies confirm that caffeine withdrawal (for me) can be fatal (for you)....lol. I used to drink caffeine drinks daily for 10 years every single day, but I havent touched a single drink with caffeine for 2 years now so its certainly possible and I was very addicted. What got me to change was finding out that caffeine causes the kidneys to excrete extra magnesium, regardless of whether you are low and need the magnesium or not. So if you drink caffeinated beverages such as coffee, tea, and soda regularly, your risk for magnesium deficiency is increased and at minimum need to increase supplementation. And as mentioned above on top of that, it is creating another stress event every time you have caffeine. Your adrenals have to produce cortisol and adrenaline to deal with it, and many on the boards suffering from things like adrenal fatigue and cfs will tell you how bad it is when your resources eventually are exhausted and cant produce energy.

It turns out Magnesium is essential to create 'energy' in the body by facilitating the production of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) in the power stations of cells (the mitochondria). ATP is the main source of energy in cells, and must be bound to a magnesium ion in order to be active. What is called ATP is often actually Mg-ATP. Low mag, low ATP. Potassium is also a big part of that process, and we need around 4,700 mg a day but almost noone gets enough. And skipping plant based foods might make it difficult to get your potassium, also leading to adrenal issues. If you have more calcium then potassium your thyroid starts to slow, causing weight gain and other effects. Cortisol from stress prevents cells from losing sodium and accelerates the rate of potassium excretion as well.

Maybe in moderation is the answer since it has some benefits for your ADHD, although there are many ways to combat depression and anxiety.
 
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Along with caffeine, alcohol is used by a lot of people after a stressful episode to relieve stress. This method of releasing stress unfortunately actually stimulates the HPA axis and gets the body to make and release cortisol! In fact, the levels of cortisol as a result from alcohol can be GREATER then the elevation from stress! They believe alcohol functions to activate the HPA axis by disinhibiting it. Alcohol depresses the nerve cells responsible for HPA inhibition, thereby elevating HPA axis activity. As a result, the adrenal cortex secretes higher levels of cortisol then usual since its disinhibited and can in part lead to adrenal fatigue and then supression of the TH1 immune system that protects us from viral reactivation.
 

drob31

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In the brain, caffeine binds the strongest to adenosine receptor A2A. The best evidence available says there is no upregulation of this receptor with chronic caffeine consumption. There is some upregulation of the A1 receptor, on the order of 20%, but this is hardly a dramatic increase. It is important to realize that caffeine has other effects on the body besides competitively antagonizing adenosine receptors. In any case, the best available evidence is that in the general population chronic coffee consumption has a neutral to beneficial effect. This article from Healthline provides a list of some of these benefits: 13 Health Benefits of Coffee, Based on Science.

Now, excuse me while I finish my delicious cup of coffee!

One connection I must make is that caffeine can allegedly mimic gluten.

So if someone is susceptible to autoimmunity and is sensitive to gluten or celiac, and become autoimmune, caffeine would automatically (theoretically) make the attack worse.
 

Wolfcub

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I'm bringing this thread back because there is so much info on it.
I'm trying to figure out why I have a completely random response to coffee -suddenly the last few months since I have been unwell.
I had a cup, sometimes two but not always, every single morning after getting up, for more than 40 years. This was always the mildest roast (strength 3) a nice mellow roast, and I made it pretty weak....well tasty but not strong or bitter.
Even the smell of it is a lovely cheerful thing in a morning. And that one first cup never made me feel weird. Just more nicely awake and able to face the day. Never anything dramatic. A little more in touch with mother Earth is what it felt like.
I really really LIKE coffee! I am not and never have been a tea person first thing in the morning.

Now I can get the most horrible feelings. The first few sips are lovely and refreshing, but by the time I've drunk even half a cup I feel awful. Can't focus, relate to anything or concentrate, feel a sense of almost-doom, shakiness starts, vaguely nauseous, can't breathe deep enough, appetite lost for breakfast, horribly restless. Really evil.
And that can be after I wake up feeling not so bad.

Then another day, there are no such feelings! Just normal!
This happens so randomly. I never know "what day it's going to be" until I've drunk that half cup of weak coffee.

Can coffee in such a small amount and pretty weak cause that kind of reaction?? And why on some days and not others?

Wouldn't it be more of a steady negative reaction if I had adrenal insufficiency? Or can adrenal insufficiency change day-to-day??

The obvious solution is to just quit my ultimate favourite morning drink. Hmphhhh! Blahhh!
 

Judee

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I've heard that caffeine makes our pancreas release more insulin. I'm wondering if on some days you might be a bit low sugar when you drink the coffee and then the extra insulin causes a hypoglycemic crisis followed by your adrenals releasing adrenaline in an attempt to correct the situation.

Maybe try eating a healthy carb about 20 minutes before your first cup of the day and see if that makes a difference.

The symptoms you are describing are the same as I experience when I get a hypoglycemic drop. They feel really awful to go through.
 

Wolfcub

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I've heard that caffeine makes our pancreas release more insulin. I'm wondering if on some days you might be a bit low sugar when you drink the coffee and then the extra insulin causes a hypoglycemic crisis followed by your adrenals releasing adrenaline in an attempt to correct the situation.

Maybe try eating a healthy carb about 20 minutes before your first cup of the day and see if that makes a difference.

The symptoms you are describing are the same as I experience when I get a hypoglycemic drop. They feel really awful to go through.
That is an interesting thought @Judee I am beginning to wonder if I have blood sugar issues, even though nothing shows on blood tests/urine tests.
 

gabriella17

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The amount of time it takes for the substance (whether caffeine or meth or heroin or nicotine or benzos) to completely leave the body could be days or a few weeks, but that doesn't matter one bit. I quit nicotine and yes, the physical withdrawal lasted a short time, even the compulsion itself was gone within weeks, but let me tell you, my recovery from it took YEARS, (and I still don't feel like my normal self). It's not the issue of withdrawal from the actual substance - it's the RECOVERY time - my neurotransmitters are all screwed up. And it take months, possibly years to rebuild them.

You know how they say, that if you quit smoking, your lungs clear up after ____ months, or your stroke risk decreases by whatever % after ___ months or years? Well, all those organs and systems have to be restored to how they were prior to smoking. Same is true for neurotransmitters, hormones, etc.

The hard part is not the crisis-like first few weeks, the hard part is the long haul that comes afterward.

Edit to add: As far as whether or not to stop caffeine. Nearly every adrenal fatigue resource that I've looked at over the last few days says that one of the most critical factors, if not THE most important, is to stop caffeine.

I have always been willing to do anything and everything to get better. Gave up smoking, done keto, paleo, vegan, whole 30, detox: no sugar, no flour, no grains of any kind, no dairy, no fruit, no sugar substitute, but you know what? My daily 2 cups of coffee (and 2 diet stevia colas) is where I'm drawing the line.
 
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Judee

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This quote is from Dr Myhill's Wiki page here.

She said, "And now for a bit of good news! AMP can be recycled, but slowly. Interestingly, the enzyme which does this (cyclic AMP) is activated by caffeine! So the perfect pick-me-up for CFS sufferers could be a real black organic coffee with a teaspoon of D-ribose!"
 
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The obvious solution is to just quit my ultimate favourite morning drink. Hmphhhh! Blahhh!
@Wolfcub
We probably should stop meeting like this :):):):).

So good to run into you here :thumbsup:.

And I agree... I quit coffee for over a year, and have been trying to gently edge back with occasional stabs at brewed decaf, and I have to admit, especially after a bad crash, even the weakly caffeinated decaf (2-3% caffeine, depending) kick-starts my brain and interest in everything quotient dramatically. Haven't had the courage to add it back in every morning, but I'm going to keep experimenting .....