I find that most discussions about the referendum miss the point.
The choice is about sovereignty and democracy. At this point, people can no longer claim ignorance about the nature and objective of the EU. It goes far beyond free trade and single market. It's an attempt to create a unified European state that may or may not be successful.
So the question is how much is British sovereignty worth and how much influence in selecting a government people want their children to have in the future. Everything else is merely a distraction and irrelevant in the long term.
Another thing that caught my eye which I wanted to respond to:
It's unclear to me by which mechanism(s) the EU could possibly collapse. After an UK exit, it could lose other members or it may even be disbanded in the future, but there are no external factors that can cause a collapse. Basically, as long as countries want to be EU members, the EU will exist.
Democracy and sovereignty are valid concerns when making a decision on which way to vote. I have not overlooked them. In fact i regularly cite increased democracy as one of the core reasons I'm voting to stay in the EU.
As it stands, the EU influences about 10% of UK law. On the other hand, the Conservatives were elected to government with 36% of the vote from 24% of the eligible population. They occupy 100% of cabinet seats and around 53% of seats in parliament (I've forgotten the actual figure). The Lords is entirely unelected. This system influences the other 90% of legislation.
I would be delighted if Leave campaigners who were really concerned about democracy turned their attention to what is by far the biggest drain on UK democracy: our own constitution. First Past The Post is, as Nigel Farage put it following the election, morally bankrupt. UKIP got 3.9 million votes (I think around 12% of votes) and won a single seat (around 0.15%). Greens got 1 million votes and won a single seat.
As it stands, I look to the EU to act as a counterweight to a government with only one to two thirds of a mandate to govern. The EU is a thin shield against the tyranny of a minority. I would make the same critique of our constitution even if my favoured party were in government and in the knowledge that UKIP, who generally hold opposing political opinions to me, would hold the balance of power in this parliament. Democracy is very important to me.
So, I hear you loud and clear on this issue. I understand why there is an allure to taking control from Brussels and handing it to Westminster. Democracy has its problems but maximising it is the best way to an equitable distribution of power. Unfortunately the allure of greater democracy from voting Leave is a red herring, and it will further increase the power of people with only a partial mandate to govern.
As democracy is important to you too, I ask you to join me in calling for electoral reform following this referendum, regardless of the outcome? The pursuit of true democracy has no party allegiance.
Our exemption from the 'Ever closer union' clause means we have a legal basis to reject joining an EU state. The others would be free to do it without us whilst we remain members of the EU with our current arrangement. Our own parliament will decide if we were to join or not. We have absolutely no legal obligation to do so.
You may be right about the EU not collapsing. It's an area i talk about but not something i have reflected on to the same extent as democracy and economy. With fewer members the point of it diminishes - and there is a risk of a domino effect - but yes, as long as member states want it then it will carry on.
I had said i wasn't going to be drawn into debate because i am too sick, but like a moth to a flame I just couldn't help myself. Now I'm seriously paying the price. Serves me right for breaking forum rules! I must refrain from responding again.