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EU Referendum... In or out? CFS/ME Perspective?

Skippa

Anti-BS
Messages
841
Should be a good can of worms to open (paging @SilverbladeTE )

But seriously, how would in/out vote affect ME CFS type stuff?

On the one hand, being left alone with the British Establishment could be kinda awkward...

On the other hand, 40 ish years of EU membership hasn't achieved diddly squat for us either.

Anyone got some nuggets that could sway my vote one way or the other?
 

worldbackwards

Senior Member
Messages
2,051
Is there an ME perspective on the EU? I shouldn't have thought so. If there is a way to look at it, you could say that, within the EU, the UK medical establishment may possibly (though I couldn't say for certain) be more likely to collaborate with scientists with countries that have different outlooks on the illness. Whilst if the UK falls back entirely on it's own resources, then we're all in a locked room with Wessely, White, Horton and everyone's favourite cast of ghouls and horrors. Are we all looking forward to that?

That said, I don't see that Brexit would make the slightest bit of difference to the treatment of ME sufferers in this country because change, if it is going to come, will come from across the Atlantic rather than the channel. And also medicine, in one sense, knows no borders anyway whilst, in another sense more related to UK institutions and personalities, is very insular and self referential, neither of which are much affected by the EU.
On the other hand, 40 ish years of EU membership hasn't achieved diddly squat for us either.
You might as well say membership or otherwise of the IMF didn't help us much either. It hasn't really got anything to do with it. The EU can no more legislate for culture within medicine than national parliaments can. I seem to remember Westminster passing an Act of Parliament declaring ME to be a physical illness at the end of the '80s which was about as much use as so many farts in the breeze. Just because it's a political problem doesn't mean that politicians can do anything about it.
 

Marco

Grrrrrrr!
Messages
2,386
Location
Near Cognac, France
Pretty irrelevant I would have thought. Scientists tends to be pretty 'internationalist' by nature and often necessity as a scientific career might take you from say the UK to Australia or vice versa depending on what opportunities open up.

Plus for every good biologically focused european researcher (Fluge/Mella or Jammes in France - apologies to any others I've missed) there are plenty of BPS or even plain psychology oriented.

If EU membership was a moderating/progressive influence then the psychoanalytic treatment of ASD in France for example would have died out long ago.
 

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,650
I think an exit would make us less likely to look at the Continent to find a solution to our health system´s problems - we may even end up with an American-style system.

I haven´t researched this but I feel other European countries´ systems allow them to look outside the mainstream for ME treatment - I have a feeling that KDM´s Belgian patients get some of their bills paid for them. I wouldn´t be surprised if that is the case for Charite´s patients too.
 
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SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
Should be a good can of worms to open (paging @SilverbladeTE )

But seriously, how would in/out vote affect ME CFS type stuff?

On the one hand, being left alone with the British Establishment could be kinda awkward...

On the other hand, 40 ish years of EU membership hasn't achieved diddly squat for us either.

Anyone got some nuggets that could sway my vote one way or the other?

mucho wormies :p

1) Europe breaks up, war is inevitable
That's why Churchill was determined to build up a European union
In that case, lol we're dead meat, never mind no research will occur

2) EU is dreadfully corrupt, but the UK is even WORSE!
EU needs reform, not inbred chinless, incompetent pig-porkers playing games like brats, with it.
and definitely areas within the EU, research, cooperative works etc that are very important and beneficial.

3) Often been European research etc that has pushed the SUCMBAG British VERMIN Son of a bitch bureaucrats and politicians into banning or working on troublesome chemicals or issues
grrr!!!
iirc was European work that showed the x ray dye that crippled my Mum was toxic, and certainly has been the case for such things as organophosphates. Uk has amazing researchers but our system is absolutely zipped up top to bottom by the Elite.
Cameron and Co suck the bacon-flavoured corporate whang when it comes to which direction to vote on Public safety
*beyond pissed off at them* the French had the right idea 230 years ago or so....
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
I'd say in.

The EU has been successful overall, thought the European monetary union experiment has clearly been a failure. The UK made a wise choice to stay out of that!
 

Cheshire

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
Pretty irrelevant I would have thought. Scientists tends to be pretty 'internationalist' by nature and often necessity as a scientific career might take you from say the UK to Australia or vice versa depending on what opportunities open up.

Plus for every good biologically focused european researcher (Fluge/Mella or Jammes in France - apologies to any others I've missed) there are plenty of BPS or even plain psychology oriented.

If EU membership was a moderating/progressive influence then the psychoanalytic treatment of ASD in France for example would have died out long ago.

EU membership has not eradicated the psychoanalytic "treatment" of autism in France. But the Council of Europe condemned several times French government for its policy in this matter. Not a magic wand, for sure. Has it been decisive? Probably not, but it has weight in and has been useful for families and advocates. And things are slowly improving now.
 

meandthecat

Senior Member
Messages
206
Location
West country UK
If a leave vote leads to the Tory party lurching to the right,( yes, terrifyingly possible ) by the loss of influence of the EU supporters, huge costs and confusion around renegotiating our relationships with the rest of the world, breaking up of the Union, 'cause the Scots will be rightly f***ed off..... then devil take the hindmost and those of us struggling already will royally screwed.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I don't think the European Union will work if they keep a uniform currency. It prevents local economic reform, creating pressure on the whole EU. This would work if the EU amalgamated all nation states, but this half in and half out creates too many issues. So research, treatment and support is going to be patchy and downright poor under the current system. Opting out of the EU will give the UK some economic room to maneuver but I am not sure this compensates for the loss of a great many EU protections and cooperative opportunities. In other words, from an economic perspective, its a mixed bag.

I do think that the EU laws give some protection to ME patients, but its very far from ideal because they seem to be not enforced. International scientific cooperation would not be affected much if at all.

On the other hand, keeping the British pound was a very good move. I think all EU member states need to reestablish local currency unless the EU totally reorganizes.

Most of the issues we face, as patients in the UK, are internal to the UK though. So being in or out of the EU will probably make no difference.