• Phoenix Rising needs funds to operate: please consider donating to support PR

Enteroviruses - revisted

Messages
120
Likes
48
Location
San Francisco
Do those with EV infections tend to test high Nagalase levels?
Yes.

Not only Virus and cancer release nagalase, there finding some bacteria do also - The bacteria side of things Dr Chia treats with 7 days of Rifampin. So Dr Chia does have some understanding of the nagalase implication.

Nagalase paralyzes the macraphages which are responsible for jump starting the entire immune cascade of events. A little like turning your vehicles car key in the ignition...without that key turning....nothing happens.
 
Last edited:

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,618
Likes
620
@Hip are you aware of anywhere to get interferon treatment besides Russia or injections through a dr?

ive contacted Russian providers but they say the treatment would lose potency after it’s shipped to Australia
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
14,683
Likes
28,843
are you aware of anywhere to get interferon treatment besides Russia or injections through a dr?
No. There are only two pharmacies I know which sell interferon products, detailed in this post.



ive contacted Russian providers but they say the treatment would lose potency after it’s shipped to Australia
It may loose a bit potency, but probably not enough to worry about. We are using low doses anyway, so a loss of some potency should not be an issue.



A few weeks ago, I just tried some oral interferon alpha, using Russian interferon alpha suppositories which have been in my fridge for I think over 3 years.

I bought some 150,000 IU suppositories 3 years ago. I divided them up to give me a low oral daily dose of just 120 IU of interferon alpha. I started taking this, but after a few days it hit me like a ton of bricks, even at this very low dose. I felt totally mentally exhausted and mentally frail, with mental health symptoms appearing.

So I had to stop, because the side effects were too strong. And that's at just 120 IU.

This is the first time I tried oral interferon; previously I had taken it sublingually, rubbing it into my gums. I did not have any issues trying sublingually, but orally it seemed much stronger.

It may be the stomach enterovirus infection which Chia finds in ME/CFS patients which makes this oral route so hard-hitting. Maybe the oral interferon goes straight into fighting the stomach infection. Since the stomach connects to the brain via the vagus nerve, any inflammation in the stomach caused by the interferon fighting the virus will affect the brain.

So the bottom line is that you don't need much potency to get a potent effect.
 

consuegra

Senior Member
Messages
141
Likes
137
Hi,

Gilead has the exclusive right of 3 drugs that can inhibit enteroviruses, but they are not doing much with them right now. Nothing much is known since they acquired these drugs last summer.

However, the Covid-19 outbreak brings up some interesting possibilities.

3 new antiviral drugs for coronavirus are all direct against the RNA polymerase of the coronavirus.

1. Remdesivir.shown to work for EBOLA virus and enterovirus 71 in vitro. We can only hope that Remdesivir might be used in a residual COVID infection trial.

2. A Japanese approved drug Flaviparivir (Avigan) is being used in various places in the world. This drug has activity against Hep C, influenza and enteroviruses.

3. Russia developed an antiviral drug Coronavir that was approved a few weeks ago.

The IACFS video conference to be held on August 21 will have half day devoted to COVID-19 related ME/CFS.
Maybe someone at this conference will have some idea or knowledge on this subject - Will any of these drugs have activity against ME/CFS?

Chris
 

Swim15

Senior Member
Messages
205
Likes
212
My labs came back positive for Coxsackie virus 1 and 6 but I haven’t seen them listed much, if any, in literature.

Are there any drugs that might be effective for this or am I just SOL?
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
14,683
Likes
28,843
Oxymatrine is usless for B5 correct?
I am not sure. I know Dr Chia says oxymatrine works for CVB3 and B4, so it may work for other CVBs.



besides the unaffordable Interferon
You might look into the low-dose oral interferon protocol detailed in this post. It put one patient into remission. That is very cheap if you use Russian interferon. I bought a box of some Russian interferon suppositories for just $11, and that's more than enough interferon for many months of oral low-dose treatment.

Interferon does not work for CVB4, though, according to Dr Chia.



Any idea where to import this to Europe (not legal here)?
You can try https://rupharma.com, who are able to ship from within the EU in Lithuania if you ask them. Also try their sister company https://mospharma.com who specialize in getting drugs delivered to countries with strict customs.
 

mitoMAN

Senior Member
Messages
200
Likes
221
Location
Germany/Austria
I am not sure. I know Dr Chia says oxymatrine works for CVB3 and B4, so it may work for other CVBs.





You might look into the low-dose oral interferon protocol detailed in this post. It put one patient into remission. That is very cheap if you use Russian interferon. I bought a box of some Russian interferon suppositories for just $11, and that's more than enough interferon for many months of oral low-dose treatment.

Interferon does not work for CVB4, though, according to Dr Chia.





You can try https://rupharma.com, who are able to ship from within the EU in Lithuania if you ask them. Also try their sister company https://mospharma.com who specialize in getting drugs delivered to countries with strict customs.
Excellent HIP! I just found that mospharma sells the Russian Arbidol for very cheap.

Now I just need to find some insights on Dosage for Coxsackie Virus. Do you happen to have any reference by chance?

Also thank you for the low dose interferon! Will look into that as well!

Thank you again for all your resources - a great book of knoweldge you are ;)
 

mitoMAN

Senior Member
Messages
200
Likes
221
Location
Germany/Austria
I’m going to be using 800mg per day and will update
on Arbidol? Nice! How long are you planning to take it? Thats also the official dosage I have found for ongoing acute fever infection from the Russians.
You are combining it with Oxymatrine right? I might add that in the mix for my CB5 as wel..
 
Last edited:

Swim15

Senior Member
Messages
205
Likes
212
on Arbidol? Nice! How long are you planning to take it? Thats also the official dosage I have found for ongoing acute fever infection from the Russians.
You are combining it with Oxymatrine right? I might add that in the mix for my CB5 as wel..
I should preface this by saying that this plan rests on my ARUP Enterovirus text which I should have back early this coming week but I’m also going to look more into CCI stuff now that I know there’s a link to sacral dimples which I have.

But I’m planning on getting two months worth and going from there.

So, If things go as planned, I’m going to be using it in combination with oxymatrine as well (probably oral and injectable). I THINK the best plan is to taper up the antivirals and then start the oxymatrine after I’ve hopefully reduced viral titers some.

Tentatively:

• Valcyte (just to cover my bases) 900mg QD - 6 months

• Arbidol 800mg QD - 2 months minimum

• Oxymatrine - depends on if I respond or not but going to taper to highest dose
• Inosine (tentative)
• Ribavarin (tentative)

• High dose astragalus extract (like 50g a day) - 3 months

• Major autohemotherapy ozone (multiple dose high pass)

• HBOT - home chamber 2 hours daily with O2

• UVB blood irradiation - 1-2x weekly
 

mitoMAN

Senior Member
Messages
200
Likes
221
Location
Germany/Austria
Are you planning to take these at the same time? not worried about heavy interactions?


• Valcyte (just to cover my bases) 900mg QD - 6 months
• Arbidol 800mg QD - 2 months minimum
• Inosine (tentative)
• Ribavarin (tentative)


I am wondering about doing Inosine Pranobex (Delimmune) and Arbidol at the same time myself!
 

Swim15

Senior Member
Messages
205
Likes
212
Are you planning to take these at the same time? not worried about heavy interactions?


• Valcyte (just to cover my bases) 900mg QD - 6 months
• Arbidol 800mg QD - 2 months minimum
• Inosine (tentative)
• Ribavarin (tentative)


I am wondering about doing Inosine Pranobex (Delimmune) and Arbidol at the same time myself!

Yes and no. Can’t think of anything worse than CFS But that’s why I’ll be trying to taper up over a few weeks so I can hopefully avoid some side effects or at least tell what’s causing them
 

choochoo

Senior Member
Messages
101
Likes
130
@Hip

Hip, I've been severely ill with me / cfs for many 40 years. I am 53. I have am an original study patient of Ramsey and Dowsett. I have been hospitalised many times for periods of up to 6 months and have spent long periods in residential care. I watch the thread but have never become a member until now.

I have tried many things and nothing has ever worked apart from a slight pick up from doxycycline and valganciclovir ( after 4 months ) that eventually wore off. I am now thinking of trialing barcitinib. It is apparently being used with some success as a treatment for covid-19.

Have you any thoughts on this? or has anybody tried this that you or anybody else knows of?

I tried to pm you but the website will not allow me to do so.
 

choochoo

Senior Member
Messages
101
Likes
130
I off topic, but it is potent anti-inflammatory. A doctor told me it is being used successfully with covid-19 patients.

Conclusion: These results show that blocking the JAK/STAT pathway reverses cognitive deficits and curtails inflammatory markers in HAND in mice. Our group recently reported safety and tolerability of ruxolitinib in HIV-infected individuals (Marconi et al., Safety, tolerability and immunologic activity of ruxolitinib added to suppressive ART, 2019), underscoring potential safety and utility of JAK inhibitors for additional human trials. The data reported herein coupled with our recent human trial with JAK inhibitors provide compelling preclinical data and impetus for considering a trial of baricitinib in HAND individuals treated with cART to reverse cognitive deficits and key events driving viral persistence
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
14,683
Likes
28,843
it is potent anti-inflammatory. A doctor told me it is being used successfully with covid-19 patients.
I am very tired at the moment, so haven't looked in detail, but I found this article which indicates that JAK inhibitors might be useful for a subset of ME/CFS patients. So possibly baricitinib might have some benefits.