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elevated Coxsackie virus -- how high is high?

el_squared

Senior Member
Messages
127
Hi there,
I was recently tested for enteroviruses and my Coxsackie numbers where high. But is there a way of knowing how unusual this is -- are these slightly elevated, or really high?
All of the Coxsackie B's were high, and some of the Coxsackie A's (IgG).
Coxsackie A7 IgG 1:400 High

Coxsackie A9 IgG 1:400 High

Coxsackie A16 IgG 1:400 High

Coxsackie A24 IgG 1:800 High

Coxsackie Virus Group B Ab
Coxsackie B-1 Ab 1:64 High
Coxsackie B-2 Ab 1:16 High
Coxsackie B-3 Ab 1:16 High
Coxsackie B-4 Ab 1:16 High
Coxsackie B-5 Ab 1:32 High
Coxsackie B-6 Ab 1:32 High
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
LabCorp doesn't have a coxsackie B assay on their test menu. They either sent it off to Focus Diagnostics or ARUP, and as @Gingergrrl points out it matters where they sent it because the two labs use a different methodology.

Those dilutions don't look like what ARUP uses but they do look like what Focus uses. Here is their interpretive criteria:

INTERPRETIVE CRITERIA:
<1:8 Antibody Not Detected
> or = 1:8 Antibody Detected

Single titers of > or = 1:32 are indicative of
recent infection. Titers of 1:8 or 1:16 may be
indicative of either past or recent infection,
since CF antibody levels persist for only a few
months. A four-fold or greater increase in titer
between acute and convalescent specimens confirms
the diagnosis.

It's kind of crazy that you're positive for all of those, especially on that test. Most people with chronic infections don't even test positive on that test. You've either coincidentally had a lot of enterovirus infections in the past few months or you have some uncontrolled chronic infections going on.
 

el_squared

Senior Member
Messages
127
Very interesting. There was a delay in getting some of the results back, so the outsourcing must have been why. I'll have to find out which lab was involved. Meanwhile, I've sent a pdf of all the enterovirus lab results to Dr. Chia and asked him if Labcorp results were considered valid.
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
Yes these tests can be labor intensive and time consuming to perform. I know for sure it takes 2-3 weeks to get results from ARUP.

Let us know what he says, I'm interested to see his interpretation. If I understand correctly in order for the complement fixation test to be positive there has to be antigen present in the blood in sufficient amounts. This is usually not the case in chronic tissue infections.

Have you had your IgG total or subclass levels measured at all or any lymphocyte subset testing done?
 

el_squared

Senior Member
Messages
127
Sorry, are you asking about the enterovirus tests? I'm not sure exactly what type -- looks like the Coxsackie A tests are IgG. Looks like the IgE tests weren't elevated.

Have you had your IgG total or subclass levels measured at all or any lymphocyte subset testing done?
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
No I don't mean enterovirus tests, I mean tests to measure your overall levels of IgG.
 

el_squared

Senior Member
Messages
127
Nope, never heard of the tests. Is this something that people who are diagnosed with CFS get tested for?
 

el_squared

Senior Member
Messages
127
LabCorp doesn't have a coxsackie B assay on their test menu. They either sent it off to Focus Diagnostics or ARUP, and as @Gingergrrl points out it matters where they sent it because the two labs use a different methodology.

Those dilutions don't look like what ARUP uses but they do look like what Focus uses. Here is their interpretive criteria:



It's kind of crazy that you're positive for all of those, especially on that test. Most people with chronic infections don't even test positive on that test. You've either coincidentally had a lot of enterovirus infections in the past few months or you have some uncontrolled chronic infections going on.

I called Labcorp today and was told that Labcorp itself handled the coxsackie tests -- most of my coxsackie numbers were high. And that Cambridge Biomedical Inc. handled the echovirus tests, and my echovirus tests were in the normal range. I have no idea what this means. I did try to get ahold of Dr. Chia through his Equilibrant webste to see what he thought, but I haven't heard from him yet.

Laura
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
I called Labcorp today and was told that Labcorp itself handled the coxsackie tests -- most of my coxsackie numbers were high. And that Cambridge Biomedical Inc. handled the echovirus tests, and my echovirus tests were in the normal range. I have no idea what this means. I did try to get ahold of Dr. Chia through his Equilibrant webste to see what he thought, but I haven't heard from him yet.

Laura
Odd, I guess I didn't look close enough, I do see the coxsackie B test on the LabCorp test menu now that I look again. Their testing methodology (complement fixation) is the same as Focus Diagnostics, which differs from ARUP and Cambridge Biomedical. The latter two are what Dr. Chia relies on. Unfortunately LabCorp doesn't list the interpretive criteria on their website for the coxsackie B test so I'm not sure what the significance is of your coxsackie B titers. Do you have a hard copy of the actual results from the lab or did they just tell you what the results were? The titer interpretation info should be on the hard copy of the results.
 
Messages
38
I'm curious as to whether anyone is actively using Equilibrant or following/seeing Dr Chia's protocol. Things have been very very quiet on that front for a while.
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
I'm curious as to whether anyone is actively using Equilibrant or following/seeing Dr Chia's protocol. Things have been very very quiet on that front for a while.
I was on a low dose of Equilibrant for several years on and off for Parvo B19 and Coxsackie B. My titres on both came down within several months, and my PCR tests came back negative after about 6 months, iirc. I also seem to have less respiratory symptoms in the fall-spring when I'm on 1-2 Equilibrant daily. I'll probably go back on that low dose again soon as I generally feel better overall when I'm taking it. For me, the cost is the real problem. If it were cheaper, I'd probably stay on it all (or most) of the time. I have to trade off costs and very high dose CoQ10 is my priority right now because it improves my QOL more than the Equilibrant.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
I am seeing Dr. Chia in Feb for a consult (after an eight month wait) so I know that he is still in very high demand. I have no idea how he will advise me. I tested positive last year for two enteroviruses but will be repeating the labs prior to seeing him to see if they are still positive.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,807
For me, the cost is the real problem. If it were cheaper, I'd probably stay on it all (or most) of the time.

Why don't you use the White Tiger brand oxymatrine tablets, containing 200 mg oxymatrine per tablet, which can be found here: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Or the Alternative Medicines Solutions brand containing 300 mg of oxymatrine powder per capsule, and available here: 1, 2.



I did try to get ahold of Dr. Chia through his Equilibrant webste to see what he thought, but I haven't heard from him yet.

I doubt that you will. He has a 9 month waiting list for appointments, plus his own research program, so I don't think he has much time.



I do see the coxsackie B test on the LabCorp test menu now that I look again. Their testing methodology (complement fixation)

There is no mention on the Enterovirus Foundation website that complement fixation is suitable for testing the chronic enterovirus infections in ME/CFS patients.

I am surprised that @el_squared's titers are high for lots of coxsackieviruses; my understanding was that tests other than the ARUP Lab micro-neutralization test were too insensitive to pick up the chronic low level enterovirus infections found in ME/CFS.

And especially surprised to see lots of high coxsackievirus A titers. I did not think it was possible to have a chronic coxsackievirus A infection; only coxsackievirus B forms chronic infections, as far as I am aware.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,807
Their testing methodology (complement fixation) is the same as Focus Diagnostics, which differs from ARUP and Cambridge Biomedical. The latter two are what Dr. Chia relies on.

I did not know Dr Chia also uses Cambridge Biomedical for enterovirus testing. Do they perform the same type of enterovirus tests as ARUP Lab? And are they any cheaper, would you know? I would like to take the ARUP tests for coxsackievirus B and echovirus, but at $440 each, that is a little bit too much money to pay out of pocket.
 
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