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EDTA question on amounts

Hello everybody



My first post! :) I haven't got round to doing an intro yet - been so busy lurking here and researching and getting tested and getting ready for tx. Anyway have some a/v and abx tx coming up (Vatrex and Doxy) - starting in couple of weeks. Got mercury out now and done two rounds of chelation.


Am happy with what i'm doing with the DMSA, have read andy cutler a bit. Its the EDTA amounts i could do with help with. I am combining the two supps. I want to get as much done as possible before tx and so will only have time for 3 or 4 chelation rounds. (So 1 or 2 more). I want to get the very best out of my tx cos i am in the uk and so a/v and abx are very hard to get - so i doubt if there will be many more/if any.

I am doing the DMSA (and adding in ALA later) for all the usual reasons, detox but also bio film break up if poss. The ETDA i am doing for more urgent and worrying reasons in that i have the second to worse degree of rouleau red bld cells - aggregated or protein linkage. I have high homocysteine at 23. Tortuous veins behind eyes (only place visable) and a pain in my left temple which scares me. With the rouleau and fibrin i am worried about a stroke. So i want to take as much as possible but be safe.

1st round - I took 10mg DMSA + one sixth of a cap ETDA (83mg). 2nd round was 20mg DMSA + 125mg (quarter cap) EDTA. I understand one can go up to 100mg eventually with the DMSA.
BUT my question is what is the highest amount of EDTA one can take in a dose (doses every 4 hours) for the eventual amount? (amt to aim for) and how much should i take for my next dose? Although i realise i should stay on the same dose for 3 rounds i am prepared to risk a little because i will not have completed much chelation before tx starts and i dont think i will be well enough to do chelation during tx. :sleep: My 3rd round will be a cautious inc to 25mg DMSA but i understand the ETDA is better tollerated so......?

Sorry such a long post and hi again to all, love the forum and all the people trying to get better. :angel:
wwxx (wishing well, kiss kiss)
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
The use of EDTA to chelate mercury is quite controversial.
Cutler doesn't recommend it other than for chelating lead but only after mercury has been removed with DMSA and ALA.
Others use it but you only hear of success stories. I personally know of one horror story about a friend of mine who was given EDTA iv for mercury detox. That was enough to push me in the Cutler's camp on this one.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
Hello everybody

My first post! :) I haven't got round to doing an intro yet - been so busy lurking here and researching and getting tested and getting ready for tx. Anyway have some a/v and abx tx coming up (Vatrex and Doxy) - starting in couple of weeks. Got mercury out now and done two rounds of chelation.
Am happy with what i'm doing with the DMSA, have read andy cutler a bit. Its the EDTA amounts i could do with help with. I am combining the two supps. I want to get as much done as possible before tx and so will only have time for 3 or 4 chelation rounds. (So 1 or 2 more). I want to get the very best out of my tx cos i am in the uk and so a/v and abx are very hard to get - so i doubt if there will be many more/if any.

I am doing the DMSA (and adding in ALA later) for all the usual reasons, detox but also bio film break up if poss. The ETDA i am doing for more urgent and worrying reasons in that i have the second to worse degree of rouleau red bld cells - aggregated or protein linkage. I have high homocysteine at 23. Tortuous veins behind eyes (only place visable) and a pain in my left temple which scares me. With the rouleau and fibrin i am worried about a stroke. So i want to take as much as possible but be safe.

1st round - I took 10mg DMSA + one sixth of a cap ETDA (83mg). 2nd round was 20mg DMSA + 125mg (quarter cap) EDTA. I understand one can go up to 100mg eventually with the DMSA.
BUT my question is what is the highest amount of EDTA one can take in a dose (doses every 4 hours) for the eventual amount? (amt to aim for) and how much should i take for my next dose? Although i realise i should stay on the same dose for 3 rounds i am prepared to risk a little because i will not have completed much chelation before tx starts and i dont think i will be well enough to do chelation during tx. :sleep: My 3rd round will be a cautious inc to 25mg DMSA but i understand the ETDA is better tollerated so......?

Sorry such a long post and hi again to all, love the forum and all the people trying to get better. :angel:
wwxx (wishing well, kiss kiss)

Hi Wishing Well,

Welcome to the forum!

I am not going to comment on the chelation but instead mention that many ME/CFS patients have hypercoagulation. There is a specific test for it in our patient group--it is called ISAC (It used to be from Hemex lab but the lab has changed owerneship--you can do a search for it here).

I realize that your testing opportunities may be limited in the UK, but the results of this test can be duplicated by combining several more conventional tests. I had this test and it showed a couple of abnormalities--including high fibrin--and I was treated with heparin injections for several months followed by nattokinase. This helped my symptoms.

Also, re: high homocysteine, you might want to delve into the methylation threads here.

Best wishes,
Sushi
 
The use of EDTA to chelate mercury is quite controversial.
Cutler doesn't recommend it other than for chelating lead but only after mercury has been removed with DMSA and ALA.
Others use it but you only hear of success stories. I personally know of one horror story about a friend of mine who was given EDTA iv for mercury detox. That was enough to push me in the Cutler's camp on this one.


Hi xrunner

I think? i just pm'ed you cos we've "met" on FF. (It may be that i pm'ed myself - Ha). I am soooo grateful for all your advice and that of E***'s, also on FF. Because of your advice i have - bought andy cutler book AND prioritised mercury removal and realisd about biofilms AND tried to get in as much chelation prior to tx as possible. As i have read more , i realise more and more that this order is a good one. So your help and that of E***'s has helped me to get to this place, which is as good as i can do.

I have not found so much info on EDTA - hence not knowing the amts. I am not doing the EDTA for mercury - i am happy with the DMSA and soon the ALA. It is purely for my vascular health. I am thinking that the EDTA helps remove stuff from the walls of blood vessels, maybe calcium, which the DMSA doesn't? I am concerned and my gp has done nothing to help me - not even a scan.

One more question if i may - what would you do for vascular health?
Thanks - wwxx
 
Hi Wishing Well,

Welcome to the forum!

I am not going to comment on the chelation but instead mention that many ME/CFS patients have hypercoagulation. There is a specific test for it in our patient group--it is called ISAC (It used to be from Hemex lab but the lab has changed owerneship--you can do a search for it here).

I realize that your testing opportunities may be limited in the UK, but the results of this test can be duplicated by combining several more conventional tests. I had this test and it showed a couple of abnormalities--including high fibrin--and I was treated with heparin injections for several months followed by nattokinase. This helped my symptoms.

Also, re: high homocysteine, you might want to delve into the methylation threads here.

Best wishes,
Sushi
Hi Sushi

Thanks for the welcome and the reply. I had a test with my gp some years ago, but they were not the ones asked for as per the hughes website. Recently she has agreed to re-test and has i think added in the one missing from before ie the lupus coagulation one. Not sure if i could get heparin privately - i will ask. So if i am dependant on gp - she will only do the tests that they do and will not recognise any other testing places/results. I will keep looking into other tests though as you said. I am hoping (maybe niavely) that my first ever Doxy tx for the lyme may help with all this. Now i have read one of your threads i see you are a rife user. This may be my next step - but so much to do.....:lol:

I have looked up some stuff on the site though as you suggested. I am stuck in my thinking - this is going to sound very blonde - but are there two things?, one - aggregated red bld cells , and two - hypercoagulatioon, which i'm thinking is white blood cells? :redface: :rolleyes: That seems a really daft question, and i am quite bright really. ;)

I have shown her the picture and so i know i have the aggregation and the fibrin.

As for the methylation , yes i have all Freddd's stuff and have read here this section. I stuggle with it so am not doing it whilst so much other stuff in progress. I also take nattokinase and have lumbro in the wings.

wwxx
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
Hi xrunner

I think? i just pm'ed you cos we've "met" on FF. (It may be that i pm'ed myself - Ha). I am soooo grateful for all your advice and that of E***'s, also on FF. Because of your advice i have - bought andy cutler book AND prioritised mercury removal and realisd about biofilms AND tried to get in as much chelation prior to tx as possible. As i have read more , i realise more and more that this order is a good one. So your help and that of E***'s has helped me to get to this place, which is as good as i can do.

I have not found so much info on EDTA - hence not knowing the amts. I am not doing the EDTA for mercury - i am happy with the DMSA and soon the ALA. It is purely for my vascular health. I am thinking that the EDTA helps remove stuff from the walls of blood vessels, maybe calcium, which the DMSA doesn't? I am concerned and my gp has done nothing to help me - not even a scan.

One more question if i may - what would you do for vascular health?
Thanks - wwxx

Hi ww,

yes I remember and I hope you're doing well (I could not reply to your pm sorry, no "reply" tab...:confused:).
Anyhow, what I wanted to say was that I'm not really qualified to offer advice on these matters. I can only talk about my own experience and that doesn't necessarily mean it can work for others as it did for me...

I picked on EDTA because from what I've seen and read, it scares me. Cutler says (I think) that it can cause harm when mercury is still there but, as you probably know from trawling the web, other doctors use it liberally for chelating and other purposes. There's never anything straightforward in real life, is there?

For vascular health (and it's not advice) I have been using Polygonum cusp./Knotweed/Resveratrol. It works very well for me and not only for that. I also cycle lumbro and natto and they both work well from a certain dosage upwards. But to give you an example of how different we all are, my father who's diabetic and has some microcirculation problems can't tolerate either natto or knotweed but does very well on lumbro (better than anything else he tried before incl. aspirin).

Recently I have been looking at vitamin k2 for regulating calcium metabolism and so far I've been impressed from what I've seen. I found this thread very helpful http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/has-vitamin-k-2-mk-4-or-mk7-helped-you.15605/

I reckon that for any solution we consider, it's important to check potential side effects, drugs and supps interactions and any other risk that may be relevant for our condition.

all the best
 
http://www.worldwellnessstore.com/detoxamin-1500-mg-30-suppositories.html?___store=default

It sounds like you are taking EDTA orally, which doesnt work and generally just steals minerals from what you eat. I think absorption is like 5% orally vs 98% via a suppository or IV.

Goodluck
Hi Charles

Thank you so much for replying. I have read your thread and realised you take the suppositories, but presumed that that was as well as orally during the day. Obviously not. :rolleyes: I had not got round to buying them - so much to do and so..............incapacitated. Thanks also for the link, quite expensive then, but not compared to IV. I am going to have to re - think all this. I have a lot to do this winter with tx's so slowly does it, and of course the inevitable prioritising. The link is great though - i feel so much safer ordering through somewhere someone else knows.

Thanks for your gook luck wishes - and to you too.
wwxx
 
Hi xrunner
Thanks for reply. Lots there to think about and a lot to read. Yes the EDTA may be a matter of risk/versus benefit. I shall look into it more and the alternatives which you have put here. I dont get on so well with herbs/plant based things. But the K2 i had a quick look at - yes very interesting and i had that wrong. I was thinking that it promotes clotting, but it may be that it modifys it. Lots more to read there - umm - thanks i think:rofl:. No joking am pleased really, its just a question of quantity of stuff to read and do.:aghhh: All i knew before was black/blue berries which people on chemo take for low white bloods. Note to self - must up my natto.
Thanks - wishin' you well xxx.
 

john66

Senior Member
Messages
159
Hello John

Many thanks for your reply and two links. Have had a look at both. It seems i must dig out my K2 from the back of the drawer where i had put it thinking dont need any blood thickener.
wwxx

Hi WW, just wanted to say that Chris Masterjohn has an excellent article on K2 on the Weston Price foundation website. Here is the link http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2. Dr. William Wong also has some good information on fibrosis, fibrinogen and how dietary enzymes can degrade excess fibrosis in blood and tissuehttp://www.zymessence.com/letter.html. Hope this helps. J