Dysautonomia, shortness of breath and Magnesium

nandixon

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Dr Goldstein, who has seen it all, was apparently well aware of this phenomenon. Here's an excerpt from the Stimulants chapter in Tuning the Brain (sorry, no page number as I only have the Kindle version).

Only about 25 percent of neurosomatic patients will have a good reaction to stimulants. Otherwise, they will have no reaction at all, even to very high doses, or stimulants will not only surprisingly calm them but will paradoxically make them sleepy or exacerbate their symptoms in general. This response indicates an abnormality of the dopamine transporter or auto-receptor hypersensitivity and also suggests the use of an agent that will inhibit the secretion of catecholamines, such as guanfacine.

Guanfacine is an alpha 2a adrenergic receptor agonist. Seems Goldstein has identified the subgroup here who would (unlike many patients with ME/CFS/dysautonomia who benefit from antagonism of this receptor) do horribly on stuff like yohimbe or mirtazapine.
@Sidereal, thanks for this. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) puts me to sleep, so I should perhaps look into the guanfacine, or something similar (if it exists - and isn't clonidine, which was too hypotensive for me).

ETA: I do have a pretty neutral or even very slightly positive reaction to yohimbe/yohimbine, though. I think mirtazapine (Remeron) was bad for me when I tried it many years ago.
 
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Snowdrop

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hi @Kenjie

There could be any number of reasons.

Is your shortness of breath related to effort or are you taking any supplements?

My only experience with SoB and very mild it was is when I had been taking Mg without also taking potassium.
When I took the K+ I felt better.
 

Kenjie

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hi @Kenjie

There could be any number of reasons.

Is your shortness of breath related to effort or are you taking any supplements?

My only experience with SoB and very mild it was is when I had been taking Mg without also taking potassium.
When I took the K+ I felt better.
I can be sitting still all day and my heart will feel like its beating harder and paired with sob. Not taking any supplements. Have tried various vitamins that make me feel worse. What is k+?

I also seem to get dehydrated fast even if drink water all day. Lightheadedness etc. Trying to understand what symptoms are to do with CFS and what isn't.
 

Snowdrop

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Ahhh, sorry, K+ is potassium. I should have spelled that out.

Your problem sounds like it could be too much water with not enough electrolytes. Popular health blather goes on and on about getting enough water but for sick people with ME and possibly POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) water simply dilutes the blood and the lack of electrolytes causes symptoms. The solution is to increase Magnesium, potassium and salt. This is a problem for most people with ME.

Here is some info: http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=30

There are other kinds of orthostatic intolerance as well. But this should give you an idea.
Hope that helps.
 

Kenjie

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Ahhh, sorry, K+ is potassium. I should have spelled that out.

Your problem sounds like it could be too much water with not enough electrolytes. Popular health blather goes on and on about getting enough water but for sick people with ME and possibly POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) water simply dilutes the blood and the lack of electrolytes causes symptoms. The solution is to increase Magnesium, potassium and salt. This is a problem for most people with ME.

Here is some info: http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=30

There are other kinds of orthostatic intolerance as well. But this should give you an idea.
Hope that helps.
I don't normally drink enough water but last few days have been due to the lightheadedness and constant trips to toilet.

I do eat bananas nearly everday which is a source of potassium. Rarely eat salt. Lately adding salt to mash potato but normal table salt. And I don't take magnesium supplement although lady at health shop told me its useful in CFS.
 

Snowdrop

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The amount of electrolyte you get in food may be enough for a healthy person but you may find you do better with an electrolyte drink mix.
Peeing many multiple times a day is another problem and one I have not solved. There is a thread or threads here somewhere as well on that topic. Many here have the same problem. It's a problem that while we are dehydrated more water does not solve the problem.
Again the dysautonomia link should help explain that. People with ME have been found to have about a litre less blood flow than healthy people.
 
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This thread is a continuation from another thread that went off topic. The quotes in this new thread are from the old thread re: neurological issues and the IOM contract. I am not on my own computer and not able to link to the old thread (hoping maybe a moderator can do that?) Tagging the posters from the old thread @zzz @Sidereal @melamine @A.B.



Thank you and this is not my experience so I suspect I am not getting too much magnesium or reacting badly to it.



My arms are incredibly weak and I get severe shortness of breath when I lift things, especially over my head. But lying down relieves the symptoms and I do not ever experience them at rest (with the exception of tachycardia in my sleep which is pure dysautonomia as far as I know) and totally different (in my case) then the severe shortness of breath that I get from exertion.



I got severe over-methylation reaction and cannot tolerate folate or B-12 but I have zero reaction to CoQ10 or D Ribose. None of them made me weaker but none have helped either.
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I relate a lot to the posting regarding fatigue. For me, if I am standing relatively still for about 10-15 minutes (to fold laundry or load dishwasher) then I usually feel fatigued and often have shortness of breath. i usually need to sit down and rest laying down flat for about 20 - 30 minutes. my blood pressure, heart rate, and SpO2 levels are all normal before resting. Also, the frequent stopping and starting while shopping in a grocery store, causes me to feel weak and dizzy. I need to keep grocery stores visits to a short duration. But, when I am continually moving my arms while walking, I can last a lot longer before feeling tired, up to 60 minutes, and I don't get shortness of breath. Additionally, I will temporarily feel better after a chiropractic adjustment, and can tolerate the standing much better over a 24 hour period; after 24 hours then its back to having a hard time with standing up.

For me, it feels like my body quickly stiffens up while standing, if i am not moving around enough. its almost feels like my spine is swelling up so I am getting enough O2 or blood to my brain. i do suffer from shorts bursts of tachycardia, which usually get triggered by emotional stress if lying down (quick burst) or will get a longer burst after a walking.

Its all a mystery how the body works.
 
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