• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To register, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Dorsal Vagal Complex Responsible for Sickness Behaviour

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
924
maybe this could lead to a temp fix for a day or to a relief for really bad days.
but there is a reason for this security mechanism.
i fear if cfs folks would disable it and feel better, and overexhaust themselfes they will crash later.
but when used as a relief to fix just the sickness sensation, but still pace and chill at the same rate as if mechanism was intact, that could at least make feel us better.

but i heared for years even from doctors that they belief that cfs is just a brain dysfunction which keeps the sick state switch on , even if its not sick anymore.
i honestly belief that is for 99,...% of us not the case. i think we are damaged on a cellular / mitochondrial level and maybe on different places as well. deficiencies, autoimmune processes. energy metabolism f'd up etc.
 
Last edited:

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
12,833
i think we are damaged on a cellular / mitochondrial level and maybe on different places as well. deficiencies, autoimmune processes. energy metabolism f'd up etc.

agree

i fear if cfs folks would disable it and feel better

The notion that we could somehow disable the sickness behavior "messages" - and then be well, I think is misguided. The term behavior suggests we can simply chose to behave differently. And behavior sounds like we can control it.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
12,833
why ME makes us feel lousy.

This comment - see BOLD from the paper posted:

"Prior studies have bolstered that theory by demonstrating that animals forced to eat when they’re sick showed a significantly increased mortality. “These behavioral changes during infection are really important for survival,” says lead author Anoj Ilanges, a former graduate student in Friedman’s lab, now a group leader at the HHMI Janelia Research Campus"

example of how this is not about "behavior". If you divert energy to digestion, you risk DEATH.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,495
Location
Alberta
I didn't see the study as leading to treating sickness behaviour. I saw it as narrowing down the part of the brain to study for signatures of ME. It's not feasible yet to study many entire brains at the level of detail needed. If the target is a small clump of cells, it might be feasible. If an abnormality is found, it might be possible to trace back to the root cause, which might be treatable.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,495
Location
Alberta
i honestly belief that is for 99,...% of us not the case. i think we are damaged on a cellular / mitochondrial level and maybe on different places as well. deficiencies, autoimmune processes. energy metabolism f'd up etc.

I still believe that ME is primarily neuroimmunological: possibly just a few brain cells working incorrectly. Since the brain controls the rest of the body, most if not all of the other physical problems from ME arise from the neuro dysfunction. Since our body systems are all interconnected, dysfunction in one area may affect other areas, resulting in a multitude of problems and anomalous measurements. However, I also still believe that fixing the core dysfunction would result in all those other problems fading away quite rapidly.
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
I propose a new term:

SICKESS RESPONSE

It's the body's response to being informed of sickness by this group of cells who are dedicated to detecting it.

To be a little more specific, this group of cells detects inflammation, which triggers the sickness response. I think the next question would be "where is the inflammation coming from in ME/CFS"? If the sickness response is what's causing us to feel sick.


The findings, published in Nature, directly link inflammation to neural pathways regulating behavior, offering insight into how the immune system interacts with the brain.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,495
Location
Alberta
I think the next question would be "where is the inflammation coming from in ME/CFS"?

An additional question is: is the response to the inflammatory signals normal or exaggerated? We probably have some level of cytokines circulating at all times, so it could be the response to them that's abnormal.