Dopamine blockage

[HABS93]

"The diagram contains the patients test results for neurotransmitters metabolites sand shows their relationship with key biochemical pathways within the axon terminal or nerve cells. The effect of microbial byproducts on the blockage of the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine is also indicated"
So my HVA is high. And my VMA is low obviously explained above . My ratio is high. In. Deff have enough copper and vit C. So we came up with Clostridia metabolites blocking the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine. I won't see him for another month but any thoughts on how to solve thiss problem ?

 

[Judee]

So one treatment of Lyme is something called Disulfiram which inhibits the DBH (dopamine-beta-hydroxylase) enzyme.

The doctor on this site that treats with that said, "Feeling weird Lyme patients report feeling weird on disulfiram. It could be due to increased dopamine in the brain. Vitamin C helps with breakdown of dopamine. Some people report Boardroom VitC 1-3 TBS 1-3 times daily is really helpful. "

Boardroom is a liposomal vitamin c formula.

So far that is the only mention I've found of something that helps with the DBH enzyme. There are studies on rats where they used cortisone but it seems like it only affected part of the brain from what I can understand of the studies.

I'm also interested in this because my gene report shows I have a lot of problems with my DBH enzymes.

 

[HABS93]

@Judee Do you think some of our main problems are contributed to these? I'm tsling 1gram of Vit C asborbic acid , also has 70mg of calcium in . Need it for the recycling of NAC(Same with e).
Have you tried this? I wonder why they feel weird. Not to sound like a degenerate but I've been off and on weed for the last year. Finally used my anger to actually quit all my addictions. My dopamine is almost non existent . Cant eat or sleep , I think it actually gave me a fever , sweating , shaking . Weed might help but not worth losing CB1 receptor.
So for me I'd probably feel good if it helps with dopamine. Have you tried the treatment?
So I've also figured out that Clostridia overgrowth is causing the blockage for me. It's not a snp problem . So we have the same problem with two different causes great lol.
Now I'm taking S.boulardi which can control clostridia .
So is the drug Droxidopa ? I know it's for DBH but it provides a adequate pathway for norepinephrine! Haven't tried it yet my bodies got so many toxins exiting I'm off of work for 2 months

 

[HABS93]

@Judee Brain fog is strong today . Nvm about the DBH unless you have that problem too.

 

[HABS93]

@Judee sorry for the giant reply seems we're brainstorming here. So droxidopa is precursor of noradrenaline used for Parkinson's in Japan still on trial in us which is odd...It is capable of crossing the BBB. Also used for orthostatic hypotension. For anyone who has that maybe a good idea.
Disfuliram causes erection problems that's a hard no . That's the only joy I have left :/

 

[Judee]

Yeah, I wish I had some ideas here. Does your doctor feel like you're making enough dopamine to begin with? Maybe it's not just a conversion problem but having enough of a supply but you would have to be careful in trying to raise your levels in case you already do have too much.

I get a swollen brain and brain stem headache when I try to raise my dopamine levels with dopa mucuna. It helps with motivation but then I get 2-3 days of headaches so I'm not sure it's worth the trade off. Maybe next time I try it, I will really up my vitamin C to see if that improves the experience. (I haven't tried the liposomal vitamin C.)

Although when I try other things to increase my dopamine I get side effects. Tyrosine makes my eyes twitch. So maybe for me it is also a conversion issue esp. with those DBH polymorphisms.

Dr Ben Lynch talks about how to upregulate and downregulate certain pathways but I'm not sure if he's covered this one yet.

 

[Judee]

I came back to say we always assume that the polymorphisms are down regulated. They could be upregulated and the dopamine is being processed too rapidly. Lassesen talks about this here when he says:

• LOW Norepinephrine Info 37.79 for significance
  • ” CFS patients had significantly higher levels of plasma norepinephrine” [2016]

His first link there takes us to https://www.datapunk.net/opus23/utopia/show_metabolite.pl?70000239+D
Which talks about norepinephrine and what it causes: it increases arousal, alertness, restlessness, anxiety, heart rate, blood pressure, release of glucose from energy stores, and blood flow to skeletal muscles.

Interesting too because it says Saccharomyces boulardii increases it.

Are you getting those symptoms. I wondered about the release of glucose because I think I remember you saying you are always hungry. Is it using up your calories too rapidly?

I'm a little confused by the contrast he is making. I think he is comparing the study he linked in that 2016 link to his own collected ubiome info (I can't find the table he references at his microbiome site.) as well as a couple of other studies showing that dopamine and tyrosine are actually low in ME/CFS patients.

Some of this seems to point (in my slow thinking) to upregulation, i.e. having too little of these two because our brains are converting to norepinephrine too rapidly. Sometimes I think and sense my brain fog is because my thoughts are racing too quickly but sometimes my mind is just blank so I don't know.

Anyway, I don't think the dopamine > norepinephine is the cause of ME/CFS but I do think it is making it harder to get well. If we have too much norepinephrine are we burning out too rapidly? Hence, PEM. And maybe the "wired but tired" that so many patients talk about. ??

Something to talk to your doctor about. Plus, maybe someone else here will have something to add that could help us understand what might be going on.

 

[junkcrap50]

Finally used my anger to actually quit all my addictions. My dopamine is almost non existent . Cant eat or sleep , I think it actually gave me a fever , sweating , shaking . Weed might help but not worth losing CB1 receptor.

This sounds like withdrawal. Sorry you're going through this suffering. IV NAD is used for withdrawal and drug rehab. But it is very expensive. So maybe oral NAD+, high doses sublingually, or IM could be helpful? Though I've never heard of oral NAD used in withdrawal treatment.

From what I've learned by reading "Your Brain on Porn", it can take many months (or even years, in extreme cass) for dopamine receptors to normalize and reset. Eventually, dopamine levels do eventually rise and people begin to feel better, even describing it "as gaining super powers."

While I understand the urge to raise dopamine (I too have low dopamine and have looked for many ways to try and increase it), it may be better to try to increase dopamine via other means than just raising levels: dopamine reuptake inhibitors, supporting dopamine synthesis enzymes, blocking conversion to norepinephrine, etc. I think that just raising dopamine (via tyrosine, dopa mucana, etc) would continue to flood the receptor, causing downregulation (just my theory/idea - not necc. true or real).

 

[junkcrap50]

Can you share which lab that Organic Acid's Test is from? That's a pretty good infographic of the pathways and I'd like the normal ranges to help compare my OAT to it.

EDIT: Found it. Great Plain's Laboratory.

 

[Judee]

I think that just raising dopamine (via tyrosine, dopa mucana, etc) would continue to flood the receptor, causing downregulation (just my theory/idea - not necc. true or real).

Thank you for the imput. Maybe that's why I get a serious headache or eye twitching after trying those things. I think it makes sense.

 

[HABS93]

@junkcrap50 Are you guys even reading what i put???????? Completely wrong dude nope. MY dopamine conversion to norephedrine is being blocked by a bacteria called clostridia holy cow people read please. Im taking boulardi which helps control the clostrdia bacteria its litearlly explained in the diagram. Your dopamine completely resets in 13 months of any addiction unless you were a hardcore addict . You learn that in rehab.
What it suggest is to take droxidopa which can create a alternative pathway for the conversion to norephedrine. Maybe disulfiram but the side effects are terrible.

 

[maple]

I’ve heard it suggested that if you react badly to disulfiram when not drinking alcohol it might be because your gut is making alcohol or you have Lyme disease. People with Lyme can react very strongly to disulfiram at doses normally given for those managing addiction, apparently.

 

[junkcrap50]

@junkcrap50 Are you guys even reading what i put???????? Completely wrong dude nope. MY dopamine conversion to norephedrine is being blocked by a bacteria called clostridia holy cow people read please. Im taking boulardi which helps control the clostrdia bacteria its litearlly explained in the diagram.

Yes I read your post. I didn't comment about your dopamine-norephedrine conversion, because I had nothing to say on that topic.

Your dopamine completely resets in 13 months of any addiction unless you were a hardcore addict . You learn that in rehab.

I've never been to rehab. So I how would I have known that? I was just sharing what I learned and where I learned it. Before reading that, I had no idea it was possible to heal your dopamine receptors from addiction or how long it can take. My point was, if you have multiple addictions, raising dopamine might not be effective if your receptors are burned out. And as receptors heal over time, patients report feeling the effects of increased dopamine. But if you find my what I share unhelpful, just ignore it and don't take it personally.

 

[Judee]

Are you guys even reading what i put???????? Completely wrong dude nope. MY dopamine conversion to norephedrine is being blocked by a bacteria called clostridia. I am taking boulardi which helps control the clostrdia bacteria its litearlly explained in the diagram.

I'm sorry if we frustrated you. I don't think anyone wanted to do that.

I understand you're going by what your doctor says and medicine has come a long way but we still are so unknowledgeable about what is going on in the body--even the doctors. Plus, everyone's bodies are so different.

I could be misunderstanding but it seems as though you indicated that some of this has started since you began treatment? If so, I think the thing is to pinpoint with your doctor what changed and if the treatment is causing some type of herx or actually making the issues worse for you. That can happen too.

Again, I'm sorry. I do better with reading and did understand what you were saying. I did look at the diagram but unfortunately, I don't seem to do well with diagrams and making out what they mean.

 

[chelsea49]

I had the same result in my OAT test: high HVA/VMA ratio and VMA was on the lower end indicating low DBH activity. This test was done the morning after a shower in the night so I was feeling brain foggy.

Taking copper and vitamin c doesn't fix the issue for me in-fact they dilate my pupils a lot more. Taking tyrosine and dopaminergic things make me feel worse. Zinc also makes me feel worse after a while.

Taking white willow which increase dopamine and noradrenaline I felt really weird and off, I get into a bath and it feels like I'm going to faint while in the bath.

When usually I have no symptoms during baths and showers its only afterwards the brain fog kicks in.

Taking hordenine (dopamine agonist )made things better from showers and made head feel clearer in general however after a few days I feel worse and much more anxious. I didn't know it was a dopamine agonist at the time otherwise I wouldn't have taken it.

"Hordenine increased response to noradrenaline in rats by 65%. A similar effect was also seen in guinea pigs. Indeed, hordenine didn’t increase alertness by itself, but by preventing noradrenaline removal"

Taking a small dose of yohimbe gives me a really bad headache and didn't make me feel any better, Yohimbine blocks alpha-1 and alpha-2 adrenoceptors - I was really expecting this to make me feel really good....

Still trying to work out to fix this...