Does methylation increase acetylcholine in the brain?

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I have a problem with excess choline, I become depressed & lethargic. I have to take benedryl (anticholinergic) a couple times per week. Upon taking it, the depression lifts and I feel better for several days.I wonder if there might be some cofactor or vitamin, I'm not aware of, that would help process this excess choline.
 

Hip

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It does seem that elevated acetylcholine levels in the brain are linked to depression, according to this article. The article says Prozac is found to increase acetylcholinesterase, the enzyme which breaks down acetylcholine, and this may help explain its antidepressant effect.

I suffer with comorbid depression with my ME/CFS, but in my case do not have any problems with taking choline.
 

DogLover

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WOW!!!! I've just found out about acetylcholine's link to depression and anxiety. I've been doing research into it-as a lay person. I first stumbled on to the subject because of the fact that benadryl makes me feel normal as does KAVA, which I just recently discovered. The link between them is that they are both anticholinergics!

I've found a few things and admittedly haven't double checked all this info, so do your own research. These are my findings over the last two days.

To decrease acetylcholine tone:
Foods to Avoid:
nightshades
eggs
nutmeg
fish
peanut butter
chicken/pork liver

Supplements to take:
Bendadryl ((this works VERY well for me)
KAVA (this works VERY well for me)
forskolin (this makes me angry as does wellbutrin, now trying at lower dose)
glycine (have not tried)
alpha-lipoic acid (have not tried)
GABA (did nothing at normal doses)

I'm currently quite optimistic about this!!!
 
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ljimbo423

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WOW!!!! I've just found out about acetylcholine's link to depression and anxiety.
I think I have high acetylcholine levels. Anything that increases acetylcholine makes me depressed, fatigued and anxious. Things like choline, phosphatidyl-choline and huperazine, all make me feel horrible. Because they all increase acetylcholine.

Improving methylation makes me feel better and more energized. So in my experience, it doesn't raise acetylcholine levels.
 
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ljimbo423

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Have you tried Benadryl or KAVA? Reactions?
I have tried kava. I use to drink 1-2 strong cups of kava tea a day for years. It helped a lot with anxiety. I haven't tried benadryl in years. The last time I tried it was to help me sleep and I had an adverse reaction to it. It made me more anxious and more awake.
 

DogLover

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I have tried kava. I use to drink 1-2 strong cups of kava tea a day for years. It helped a lot with anxiety. I haven't tried benadryl in years. The last time I tried it was to help me sleep and I had an adverse reaction to it. It made me more anxious and more awake.
I've heard that benadryl can go either way with people. For me it works wonders, but makes me drowsy. So, not a good long term solution. Have you tried any type of low cholernergic diet/protocol?
 

ljimbo423

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Have you tried any type of low cholernergic diet/protocol?
I haven't yet. I don't know what kind of supplement protocol to follow.

I think that the diet would be a real struggle for me, because I'm on a low carb diet and need to stay on it to function at the level I do. I do eat a lot of foods that are high in choline but that I think that would be only part of the picture.

I think chronic immune activation or the oxidative stress from it, has a lot to do with my high levels of acetylcholine. Having said that, I do wonder how much better I might feel if I cut out a lot of the foods I eat that are high in choline.
 

DogLover

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I haven't yet. I don't know what kind of supplement protocol to follow.
I'm still working on it, but nightshades seem to have something in them that acts similar to a re-uptake inhibitor mechanism by effecting Acetylcholinesterase which "is an enzyme that catalyzes the breakdown of acetylcholine and of some other choline esters that function as neurotransmitters. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholinesterase

I'm hot an the trail of this. There are other things that are advertised as "brain function" supplements that work by promoting acetylcholine tone. (By tone I mean the effect of acetylcholine which may or may not include: the amount of the neurotransmitter, its action, receptor sensitivity, etc.) For instance, I read hear on PR that fish oil promotes acetylcholine, so you may want to drop it. I haven't really confirmed any of this yet!!!! Still looking into it.
 

ljimbo423

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For instance, I read hear on PR that fish oil promotes acetylcholine, so you may want to drop it. I haven't really confirmed any of this yet!!!! Still looking into it.
I have read that too. I've been taking 8-10 grams of fish oil a day, containing 4-5 grams epa/dha, for 2-3 years.

I've recently cut down from 10 to 8 grams a day. I don't think there have been any changes in my anxiety or depression but I haven't been looking for any. I'll be looking for them now.

I want to drop down to at least 6 grams a day and lower if I find out it's making my depression or anxiety worse.
 

DogLover

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@ljimbo423

I've been on an acetylcholine google binge for the past few days and I'm running into contradictory information and much "bro science." Results are heavily skewed toward INCREASING acetylcholine, there is very little on DECREASING it. It's a little frustrating to search for "decreasing acetylcholine" and the first page populates with "boost acetylcholine" results.

So, I guess just read about how to increase acetylcholine and do the opposite?

My plan at this point is to continue using KAVA and benedryl until I find a good alternative.
 
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ljimbo423

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I've been on a acetylcholine google binge for the past few days and I'm running into contradictory information and much "bro science." Results are heavily skewed toward INCREASING acetylcholine, there is very little on DECREASING it. It's a little frustrating to search for "decreasing acetylcholine" and the first page populates with "boost acetylcholine" results.
This is exactly what happened to me. Yes, very frustrating!

So, I guess just read about how to increase acetylcholine and do the opposite?
One would think with all the billions of web pages on the web, that there would be some about decreasing acetylcholine. If there are, they are well hidden!:confused:o_O:)
 

DogLover

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I have a problem with excess choline, I become depressed & lethargic. I have to take benedryl (anticholinergic) a couple times per week. Upon taking it, the depression lifts and I feel better for several days.I wonder if there might be some cofactor or vitamin, I'm not aware of, that would help process this excess choline.
Just a shout out, did you ever get anywhere on excess acetylcholine?
 
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Just a shout out, did you ever get anywhere on excess acetylcholine?
It turns out it was not acetylcholine. I experimented with some Alpha GCP and Citicoline, and it had a totally different effect. At first it made me feel better, helped with depression and focus, but then quickly became too much and caused restless legs and brain fog, but a different feeling from what I was originally describing. Supplementing choline actually did not cause anhedonia or depression which was surprising.

I think my problem was excess neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, norepinpehrine), but not acetylcholine. I believe benadryl reduces all neurotransmitters in general. I have the MAO warrior gene so I assume anything that boosts these too much will end up causing anhedonia. Of course I could be totally wrong, and it could be something else unkown.

B2 helps, R5P is more powerful. It increases MAO and breaks down neurotransmitters. I'm still trying to figure out a good balance.
 

DogLover

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I think my problem was excess neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, norepinpehrine), but not acetylcholine. I believe benadryl reduces all neurotransmitters in general.
It's all so complicated and the evidence we gather can appear so contradictory.

It did find this: https://www.allceus.com/podcast/acetylcholine/ at 28.10 she talks about how Serotonin inhibits Acetylcholine. This makes a ton of sense.

Acetylcholine ↑ as Serotonin ↓
GABA ↓ as Acetylcholine ↑
Dopamine ↑ as Acetylcholine ↑
Cortisol ↑ as Acetylcholine ↑
 
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