Does Anyone Else Wake Every 1.5 hrs?

[Wishful]

I think this started for me a few years ago: I seem to wake up every 1.5 hrs or so. Usually I pee, just to make sure that bladder pressure won't wake me later, and fall back to sleep. I almost always wake up from a dream, but not from some dream action waking me, so I'm obviously getting REM time.

A paper I read recently mentioned that sleep cycles through its stages, including REM, approximately every 90 minutes, which matches my present waking cycle. I was wondering if other people suffer from this, making it an ME symptom, or if anyone knows what the cause is. My first assumption is that ME is altering the glial cells in a way that is causing this improper switch from repeating the cycle to waking instead.

 

[JoeyJo]

I've been waking up multiple times each night for the past few years too ( usually between 2-7 times) but when I look at my FitBit data I wouldn't say there's any pattern to it. Sometimes the awakenings have been close together and at other times they've been spaced out randomly throughout the night. What's more, I go through phases as to whether I'm able to go back to sleep easily or not. I'd say the only constant is that the majority of stirrings occur after 2am.

My REM readings also range from so little that they weren't able to calculate a percentage to around 20%. When I wake up properly it's often from a dream but I struggle to remember most of it and thus they're not satisfying like they used to be. They feel quite broken.

 

[xebex]

Yes I would wake constantly in the night as you describe it seems to be as I went into a lighter stage of sleep id just wake up. Often I’d then be awake for the rest of the nite seemingly full of energy. Cutting carbs after 6pm, removing all my food sensitivities(which is pretty difficult as I have many) glutamate and preservatives seem to be my main issue for night time waking and using a weighted blanket really help, which suggests it’s some kind of neurological issue with glutamate and possibly dopamine. If Something wakes me I do struggle to get back to sleep but I use melatonin if it’s before 3am.

 

[Strawberry]

I used to ( and often still do) wake 20-30 times per night. Doctors refused to sleep test me as I was skinny. What... Ever....

 

[Wishful]

Too skinny to sleep test???? Maybe they only wanted patients who had sleep apnea due to obesity, which they have a standard treatment for. Are there mechanics who only accept vehicles with dirty air filters?

 

[Strawberry]

Lol good analogy

 

[Treeman]

I have slept poorly for decades through my illness. I can see no pattern, just irregularity. Sometimes it falls in to a pattern for a few nights but then changes. When ever I try a new supplement / herb / medication it goes all over again, sometimes settling down sometimes not until I stop what I'm trying.

I think it's all about chemical imbalances. If I'm not producing enough energy all the chemicals I need for sleep etc. will also be in a depletion.

I some times use melatonin and it sometimes help. I just accept it and it helps not to get stressed which would make it worse.

 

[Flojohn]

I think this started for me a few years ago: I seem to wake up every 1.5 hrs or so. Usually I pee, just to make sure that bladder pressure won't wake me later, and fall back to sleep. I almost always wake up from a dream, but not from some dream action waking me, so I'm obviously getting REM time.

A paper I read recently mentioned that sleep cycles through its stages, including REM, approximately every 90 minutes, which matches my present waking cycle. I was wondering if other people suffer from this, making it an ME symptom, or if anyone knows what the cause is. My first assumption is that ME is altering the glial cells in a way that is causing this improper switch from repeating the cycle to waking instead.

Hi Wishful,
I am the same. 1.5-2 hours I wake up from a vivid dream, pee and then go back to bed and sleep, usually right away. So I'm up 4-5 times during the night. As this was posted nearly a year ago, have you learned anything further about this?

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Hi Wishful,
I am the same. 1.5-2 hours I wake up from a vivid dream, pee and then go back to bed and sleep, usually right away. So I'm up 4-5 times during the night. As this was posted nearly a year ago, have you learned anything further about this?

Had the same until I found (low dose) Trimipramine. Now I sleep 10 hrs without waking up. Downside is that it blocks dopamine which I try to boost with other drugs 🙄

 

[Wishful]

As this was posted nearly a year ago, have you learned anything further about this?

Yes, I quite unexpectedly figured out what was causing the 'waking every 90 minutes': proline (non-essential amino acid). I must have had this sensitivity to proline for at least several years, but I didn't notice the correlation, because proline is in almost all foods. Last winter I got a viral infection (I think) and felt much groggier and sluggish even after the virus was gone, and that got worse when I ate meat. I eventually narrowed it down to proline. When I switched to a proline avoidance diet (basically cornstarch&water), my sleep duration rose to several hours. Increasing proline again put me back into waking every 90 minutes.

To make the story even more interesting, I accidentally discovered that something in beef countered proline's effects. Lamb had the same effect, so it seems to be something ruminants produce. I'm pretty sure that it's CLAs (conjugated linoleic acids). Dairy products also have CLAs, and also work for me. The CLAs became less effective against the grogginess/sluggishness after the first few weeks (nasty evil ME effect ), but still works for sleep duration. About 100g of regular ground beef allows me to sleep for 3-4 hrs. Lamb (with fat) or a chunk of beef fat allowed me to sleep 5-6 hrs without waking ... as long as I also avoided other sources of proline.

I noticed that the increase in sleep duration wears off later in the sleep cycle. A typical (with CLAs) night might be 3, 3, 1.5, 1.5 hrs of sleep.

I haven't figured out why proline affects my sleep, or why CLAs counter that. Those two molecules take part in way too many biological reactions, and researchers really know little about the complex chemistry of the brain.

 

[cigana]

I think this started for me a few years ago: I seem to wake up every 1.5 hrs or so. Usually I pee, just to make sure that bladder pressure won't wake me later, and fall back to sleep. I almost always wake up from a dream, but not from some dream action waking me, so I'm obviously getting REM time.

A paper I read recently mentioned that sleep cycles through its stages, including REM, approximately every 90 minutes, which matches my present waking cycle. I was wondering if other people suffer from this, making it an ME symptom, or if anyone knows what the cause is. My first assumption is that ME is altering the glial cells in a way that is causing this improper switch from repeating the cycle to waking instead.

Have you been tested for sleep apnea and UARS?

 

[Wishful]

Have you been tested for sleep apnea and UARS?

No, but I don't fit the effects well. I don't think either of those common sleep disorders has such a consistent 90 minute interval, correlating strongly with proline or CLA levels.

 

[Wishful]

Another fact that points to something uncommon about my broken sleep: abnormal REM state. REM sleep usually starts ~90 minutes after falling asleep. I recently had a night where I was waking every 12+ minutes (bladder infection). I'd pee, go back to bed, fall asleep and resume my previous dream, and then wake up again as early as 12 minutes later. Was I not leaving the REM state properly (REM state usually involves muscular paralysis)? Was my REM state threshold abnormally low? I think it means that ME is messing up my neural functions involved in sleep.

 

[christiankatz]

I wake up continuously during the night, but I haven't kept track of how long I sleep before waking up. 90 minutes sounds about right. Now I may pay more attention to it.

 

[Shanti1]

I quite unexpectedly figured out what was causing the 'waking every 90 minutes': proline (non-essential amino acid). I must have had this sensitivity to proline for at least several years,

I am in awe of your detective work, so glad you figured something out that helped you.

 

[Wishful]

@christiankatz , if you do find that you fit the 90-minute sleep cycle, I recommend trying proline avoidance and/or CLAs (ruminant meat (best with lots of fat) or dairy).

@Shanti1 , it's a matter of paying attention to changes in symptoms. I noticed that I consistently felt worse after eating meat (pork and chicken). There was considerable detective sleuthing to identify proline as the culprit. Then when I avoided proline, I noticed that I slept longer. Then in another experiment with meat, some nice looking steaks were on sale, so I bought those and slept 5+ hrs without waking. Finding out about CLAs took some sleuthing too.

Keeping a journal helps figure things out, but the critical aspect is paying attention to changes in symptoms. If you feel unexpectedly better one day, the cause of that might be repeatable if you can figure it out.

 

[cigana]

No, but I don't fit the effects well. I don't think either of those common sleep disorders has such a consistent 90 minute interval, correlating strongly with proline or CLA levels.

Is your sleep refreshing if you avoid proline, or does proline avoidance simply stop you from waking? People with UARS often have lots of bizarre sleep issues that don't fit standard patterns, certain things / avoidance of things can make them "sleep" (ie. not wake) but that doesn't fix the daytime symptoms. I thought it worth mentioning because I resisted testing for a decade because it didn't seem to fit me at all (in terms of symptoms or risk factors) but turns out I have it and would never have guessed.

 

[Wishful]

Is your sleep refreshing if you avoid proline,

No, I don't remember what feeling 'refreshed feels like. Proline avoidance just increases the time between waking. The consistency of the 90 minutes cycle and the changes due to CLAs doesn't seem consistent with breathing problems. AFAIK, those would be much more random, and affected by many more factors.

 

[cigana]

No, I don't remember what feeling 'refreshed feels like. Proline avoidance just increases the time between waking. The consistency of the 90 minutes cycle and the changes due to CLAs doesn't seem consistent with breathing problems. AFAIK, those would be much more random, and affected by many more factors.

This doctor claims waking every 90 minutes is related to a narrow anatomical airway (which is what UARS is):
https://doctorstevenpark.com/why-do-some-insomniacs-keep-waking-up-at-the-same-time

 

[TinaYesen]

I seem to wake up every 1.5 hrs or so. Usually I pee, just to make sure that bladder pressure won't wake me later, and fall back to sleep. I almost always wake up from a dream, but not from some dream action waking me, so I'm obviously getting REM time.

Yes. I have ICC-ME and it came on with it. Wake every 30 min to 2 hours without a strong sedative. Sometimes I wake from a dream, sometimes not.

Always slept through the night prior to contacting ME.

Edit: I also have obstructive sleep apnea.