Does anybody find benzos alleviate the majority of their symptoms?

[Sophiedw]

Obviously it’s not a long term solution but i do find benzos like Valium and also z drugs (zopiclone) alleviate the majority of my symptoms atm. I’m more looking at this as a research tool. What could be lacking in my nervous system that allows benzos to make me feel so ok - psychical symptoms as well, fever etc. Especially the symptoms of hypersensitivity - that make sense. But what is it that could be lacking naturally to allow gaba receptor agonists to basically make me feel fine ( I mean not fine, but functional). Very stuck. Any nutritional or supplement ides welcome.

 

[andyguitar]

But what is it that could be lacking naturally to allow gaba receptor agonists to basically make me feel fine ( I mean not fine, but functional). Very stuck. Any nutritional or supplement ides welcome.

Possibly a bit more to it than just GABA as this research (on rats) shows.

 

[ljimbo423]

What could be lacking in my nervous system that allows benzos to make me feel so ok - psychical symptoms as well, fever etc.

It might be working as an anti-inflammatory. Although, these are both studies done on rats. I couldn't find any done with people. Edit- Diazepam is Valium.

Conclusion: Diazepam through enhancement of activity of genes responsible for synthesis of corticosterone via its stimulatory action on Peripheral Benzodiazepine Receptors (PBRs) in adrenal glands and modulating activity of immune cells could be of high pharmacological interest as a potential anti-inflammatory agent.

Link

Here is a quote from a different study-

Abstract

Benzodiazepines are psychoactive drugs and some of them also affect immune cells. We here characterized the inflammatory and infiltrating immune cells in the central nervous system (CNS) during the acute phase of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) in animals treated with Diazepam.

Also, we evaluated the expression of Translocator Protein (18kDa) (TSPO), which is a biomarker of neuroinflammatory diseases.

The results indicate that Diazepam exerts protective effects on EAE development, decreasing the incidence of the disease and reducing the number of inflammatory cells in CNS, with a concomitant decrease of TSPO levels in brain tissue and CNS inflammatory CD11b+ cells.

Link

 

[mitoMAN]

Might want to look here:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...otein-tspo-agonists.82884/page-2#post-2334689

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

What could be lacking in my nervous system that allows benzos to make me feel so ok

One of the things of interest I've noted in thread after thread here is the sensitivity to glutamate.

So while I agree that GABA isn't the whole answer, I think a possible imbalance in GABA/glutamate might have something to do with it.

Diazepam/Valium is a reliable and pretty powerful muscle relaxant, as well as a GABA agonist. Tight, tensed uscls send particular messages to our immune systems and CNS.

So many little dots to try and connect.

If you have a choice, stick with Valium/Diazepam, by far the lesser of considerable evils. and good luck!!! Hope you find some answers ...

It might be working as an anti-inflammatory

That's an interesting observation .... again, another frustratingly alluring little dot to add to the Can-You-Connect-These puzzle .... diazepam did rate highly as an effective anti-inflammatory in several small research studies ..

 

[seamyb]

I used to do diazepam and similar drugs recreationally. I'm very thankful that I never had a constant supply, because those things are addictive.

It's very different using them for treating an illness, especially one which doesn't have a lot of effective treatments. However, I strongly, strongly advise you to be very careful.

They just make everything ok. Pure peace of mind. And that's only the psychological side of the addictive qualities. The physical, biochemical side is worse.

If you have any history of addiction, I'd urge you to rethink.

 

[SlamDancin]

Yes, unfortunately, benzos make me way more functional but due to my addictive nature, have always ended up an unmanageable proposition for me. I am going to trial the endogenous GABAA agonist Allopregnanolone in the next few days and report any benefits here.

 

[Judee]

I am going to trial the endogenous GABAA agonist Allopregnanolone in the next few days and report any benefits here.

This one sounds kinda scary to me. Hope you are doing it under a doctor's supervision.

https://www.drugs.com/mtm/brexanolone.html

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm very thankful that I never had a constant supply, because those things are addictive.

Boy Howdy, and from your mouth to every member's ears ....

It's very different using them for treating an illness, especially one which doesn't have a lot of effective treatments. However, I strongly, strongly advise you to be very careful.

I can't agree more strongly. Everyone I've talked or posted to about this started out either as a trusting patient with a Drs prescription and no thoughts of abusing it, or as a fellow ME/CFS sufferer who'd found that Valium eased a lot of symptoms, without being aware that the mechanism for much of that was the surge of powerful exogenous GABA that was quietly destroying their own neurotransmitters and eventually leaving them in a world of pain and hurt that was almost insurmountable. In one case I personally and sadly know, it was lethally insurmountable ....

If you have any history of addiction, I'd urge you to rethink.

Again, I agree forcefully.

Thank you for posting this @seamyb .... you'll never know who or how many you may have saved from a fate very death-like ....

EDIT .... for usual embarrassing typo. Typos ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

This one sounds kinda scary to me. Hope you are doing it under a doctor's supervision.

https://www.drugs.com/mtm/brexanolone.html

YIKES !!!! That does sound a little .... hair-raisingly frightening .... like @Judee, I'm hoping that you're doing this under a Drs supervision @SlamDancin .... a 60 hour IV infusion is just .... YIKES !!!!

I applaud your courage and have added you to my list of Intrepid Voyagers , and am hoping for a positive and happy outcome .... please post back so we know that you're OK, yes?

 

[SlamDancin]

@Judee @YippeeKi YOW !! I’m not doing this under a doctor’s supervision but straight AlloP is unlikely to be as strong as Brexanolone. I will be trialing it orally, sublingually and through the skin. AlloP has a super short half life and gets metabolized very fast, at least orally, so it will not reach anywhere near the concentration that the prescription IV Brexanolone version. This is the reason Brexanolone was created (it’s the exact same molecule, Allopreg, but they patented the complete package). It’s a $34,000 drug but I scored reputably sourced Allopreg for $29.99 plus shipping

From the reports I’ve read some people have been having some nice reactions, some are reporting nothing but it does appear that above a certain dose people are not liking the effects (sedation was mentioned). So I have a pretty good idea of where to target the dosing. I will be sure to keep yall updated here though just in case. Fingers crossed!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

straight AlloP is unlikely to be as strong as Brexanolone. I will be trialing it orally, sublingually and through the skin. AlloP has a super short half life and gets metabolized very fast, at least orally, so it will not reach anywhere near the concentration that the prescription IV Brexanolone version.

Oh, wow, and thank you !!! That's a huge relief ....

it’s the exact same molecule, Allopreg, but they patented the complete package

Well, of course they did, didn't they ....

it does appear that above a certain dose people are not liking the effects (sedation was mentioned

Yes, I read about that. It's a warning sign, so if you suddenly feel like you cant keep your eyes open another minute, that's a not very good sign, and you might want to get to an ER ....

I will be sure to keep yall updated here though just in case. Fingers crossed!

Oh please, please, please do .... @Judee will be worried, and I know I will .... and any positive effects could be hugely helpful info to present and future members ....

So rock on Intrepid Voyager, and onward and upward !!!!

 

[SlamDancin]

Oh please, please, please do .... @Judee will be worried, and I know I will .... and any positive effects could be hugely helpful info to present and future members ....

I appreciate this a lot thank you! All I can really say is that as a super responder to benzos, which seems to be common in ME, hopefully this will provide a safer and more sustainable way to boost GABA signaling. I would get more into the pharmacological reasons why I think it might be helpful but I’m too tired lol. Thanks again . I’ll be back soon

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I’ll be back soon

Please don't forget us .... I'll be uneasy til I hear back from y'all ....

All I can really say is that as a super responder to benzos, which seems to be common in ME,

Yeah, I've noticed that, too, coupled with a general hypersensitivity to glutamate in any of its enticing but destabilizing, at least for many of us, forms ....

I had a theory about the Krebs Cycle and part of the early conversion process in that, but I finally gave up on figuring it out. Way above my pay grade, but I think there's something in there and on one of my rare but treasured 'good' days, I may go at it again ....

 

[2Cor.12:19]

Obviously it’s not a long term solution but i do find benzos like Valium and also z drugs (zopiclone) alleviate the majority of my symptoms atm. I’m more looking at this as a research tool. What could be lacking in my nervous system that allows benzos to make me feel so ok - psychical symptoms as well, fever etc. Especially the symptoms of hypersensitivity - that make sense. But what is it that could be lacking naturally to allow gaba receptor agonists to basically make me feel fine ( I mean not fine, but functional). Very stuck. Any nutritional or supplement ides welcome.

Hi @Sophiedw - I’ve had ME/CFS for 35 years and have been on benzos (Xanax) every day for 22 years. It was originally prescribed for panic disorder and anxiety. Yes, it helps tremendously with anxiety and has also been a godsend to take extra as needed for vertigo episodes. Other symptoms haven’t been helped other than the fact that calming the nervous system does helps make ME/CFS more bearable.

But I’ve been very slowly weaning off them for the past 2 years and hope to get off completely within the next year. Benzos are an absolute bear to try to get off! I know from personal experience that long term use can actually PERPETUATE anxiety and can potentially impact memory and cognitive problems. My memory had gotten so bad that my neurologist suspected dementia. However, he retested me after I had weaned halfway off and found that my memory and cognition had improved significantly. And I had never been on high doses to begin with either.

If I had it to do over again, I would have only used it temporarily or on a limited as needed basis and would have found an alternative for the anxiety.

Benzos can be a lifesaver when used short term , but for daily long term use please proceed with caution. They can potentially do more damage than good in the long run.

Best wishes.

 

[Sophiedw]

Thank you for taking the time to write all these thoughtful or insightful responses. Can always rely on the brain trust.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Sophiedw

I know from personal experience that long term use can actually PERPETUATE anxiety and can potentially impact memory and cognitive problems

When taken long-term, they slowly destroy your system's ability to produce its own GABA, since benzos provide huge tsunamis of exogenous GABA, leaving your neurotransmitters thinking, "Well, my work here is done ..." and quietly dying off, until you have virtually none.

That's generally the point at which your find your anxiety, insomnia and tetchiness increasing, and general emotional well-being sliding into the abyss.

The response from your Dr, or fro you if you're self-treating, will be to increase your dose, because your system is struggling with tolerance withdrawal, and needs more of the drug to get the same effect as you got initially from a lower dose. This pattern will continue, until you suddenly find yourself on a dose of benzos that you find ..... surprizing. And alarming.

Alternately, your Dr may yank you off your prescription with an ill-considered, waaaaay too fast 'taper', which will leave you in a state of misery you probably never considered possible from a small pill, or even several of them.

Benzos can be a lifesaver when used short term

The difficulty is that the relief they provide initially is very hard to resist and temper. It's part of the fierceness of their danger.

If you can meter your use, they do provide amelioration. If you can't, it's a hot slide into hell.

for daily long term use please proceed with caution

Absolutely agree.

Will go a step further: don't use ANY benzo, including Z-drugs (which Drs erroneously will tell you really aren't benzos at all ), in a steady, continuous, daily dose.

Honest. Bad bad bad idea ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

What could be lacking in my nervous system that allows benzos to make me feel so ok

GABA is the ultimate feel-good drug. It's the systemic calmer and soother, as opposed to glutamate, the systemic exciter, which is why its called an excitotoxic. When too dominant, it'll continue firing until your brain cells, over-stimulated beyond endurance, give up and literally die.

So the problem systemically may refer back to what I posted earlier in this thread, that a surprizingly large number of members seem to have extreme sensitivity to glutamate an it's effects on the brain/ CNS/ neurotransmitters.

The slower but more reliable route, if that's your problem, is to eliminate glutamic acid/ glutmate/ monosodium glutamate (MSG) from your diet as completely as possible. This is harder than it would seem, because MSG and glutamate are powerful purveyors of what's now called 'umami' (probably because 'Central Nervous System Nuclear IED' is so .... unwelcoming), and can take a substandard tasting meal or product to a whole new, highly saleable, level.

Once you've given your brain time to rebalance and heal, you can add various things you love back a little at a time, and gradually get back to a more normal and satisfying diet ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Hiya @Wayne, good to see you !!! Was thinking of you yesterday, and realizing that I hadnt bumped into you for a bit, and wondering where y'all were ....

Ask and ye shall receive, eh ?????

 

[2Cor.12:19]

@Sophiedw

When taken long-term, they slowly destroy your system's ability to produce its own GABA, since benzos provide huge tsunamis of exogenous GABA, leaving your neurotransmitters thinking, "Well, my work here is done ..." and quietly dying off, until you have virtually none.

That's generally the point at which your find your anxiety, insomnia and tetchiness increasing, and general emotional well-being sliding into the abyss.

The response from your Dr, or fro you if you're self-treating, will be to increase your dose, because your system is struggling with tolerance withdrawal, and needs more of the drug to get the same effect as you got initially from a lower dose. This pattern will continue, until you suddenly find yourself on a dose of benzos that you find ..... surprizing. And alarming.

Alternately, your Dr may yank you off your prescription with an ill-considered, waaaaay too fast 'taper', which will leave you in a state of misery you probably never considered possible from a small pill, or even several of them.

The difficulty is that the relief they provide initially is very hard to resist and temper. It's part of the fierceness of their danger.

If you can meter your use, they do provide amelioration. If you can't, it's a hot slide into hell.

Absolutely agree.

Will go a step further: don't use ANY benzo, including Z-drugs (which Drs erroneously will tell you really aren't benzos at all ), in a steady, continuous, daily dose.

Honest. Bad bad bad idea ....

@YippeeKi YOW !! Well said!!! I should have qualified “short term” meaning not more than 3-4 days with a mongo caveat from the dr about addiction.
It’s generally true that people will increase the dosage to get the desired effect, but that’s not the case for everyone including myself. 22 years on the same relatively low daily dose - never needed to increase - and there are others like me out there. That said, withdrawal happened when even being late by a few minutes.
You’re absolutely right about the chance of a doctor pulling the script too fast. Few drs know how to wean correctly off the stuff.
Then there’s the problem of getting refills when traveling out of state. Another story altogether.
I believe benzos should be treated like narcotics. Rarely, and for only a few days at most. Unfortunately, Drs keep doling them out like candy.