Danish studies promising for CO2/Oxygen inhaler for Migraine

[Wolfcub]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181004110050.htm

(Quoted from above. To read the full text please go to the above link)

By slightly changing the body's own molecules using a small inhaler,

certain migraine patients can either cut down on medication or do without

it completely. This is shown by a pilot study which has been published in

the scientific journal Cephalalgia.

Patients who suffer from migraine with aura, which is where they

experience either sensory or visual disturbances before the painful

headaches begin, have been examined in the study. Eleven patients

participated in the pilot study, which will now be followed by a large

clinical trial.

One of the authors is MSc in Engineering and PhD Troels Johansen, who

carried out the study as part of his PhD at the Department of Clinical

Medicine at Aarhus University and the Headache Clinic at Aarhus

University Hospital, Denmark.

"The study shows some very significant physiological effects in the body,"

says Troels Johansen, who currently teaches at the Aarhus University

School of Engineering. Together with a team of employees, he has put

the inhaler into production through the company BalancAir.

 

[Hip]

Very interesting. The article says:

We utilise CO2 and oxygen, which are the body's natural molecules for mobilising its own defence against migraine attacks. The inhaler expands the blood vessels that supply the brain with oxygen by up to seventy per cent and thereby stops the destructive chain reaction

Some years ago I tried breathing in some carbon dioxide gas (that I made by mixing vinegar or citric acid with bicarbonate of soda in a plastic food bag). I was hoping the strong vasodilation that CO2 causes in the brain might improve brain blood flow, and ameliorate ME/CFS symptoms.

I detail my CO2 experiments in this post.

I think breathing a few gulps of CO2 led to some mild improvements in my brain fog that lasted a day or so; but because it takes a bit of time to prepare a plastic bag full of CO2 gas, I never took it on a daily basis.

But if you want to try this, just place heaped teaspoon of citric acid (or some vinegar) and a heaped teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate in a plastic food bag with a bit of water. They will react and fizz up, and the gas that bubbles of is CO2, which you collect in the bag.



Anyway, seeing the above migraine study, I wonder if my home system of making CO2 gas in a bag might help migraine sufferers. (If anyone considers trying this, I would suggest trying a tiny sniff of CO2 gas first, just in case it might makes the headache worse).

Just found this article: The Benefits of CO2 For Treating Migraine

 

[Wolfcub]

Some years ago I tried breathing in some carbon dioxide gas (that I made by mixing vinegar or citric acid with bicarbonate of soda in a plastic food bag). I was hoping the strong vasodilation that CO2 causes in the brain might improve brain blood flow, and ameliorate ME/CFS symptoms.

That's very interesting @Hip I remember mixing vinegar with bicarb when I was a kid, just to observe the result! I remember it stank pretty badly. I seem to remember we put that in a toy submarine too, to make it surface then dive again (in the bath)

What I don't get is this: -exercise and alcohol both cause vaso-dilation, but can exacerbate migraine symptoms. So I am still trying to understand why the vaso-dilation caused by CO2 is beneficial.

 

[Hip]

What I don't get is this: -exercise and alcohol both cause vaso-dilation, but can exacerbate migraine symptoms. So I am still trying to understand why the vaso-dilation caused by CO2 is beneficial.

Yes, I am a bit confused by that, because I read once before that vasodilation is a possible cause of migraines, according to one theory.

Although I just found this article which says:

Migraine headache occurs via intracranial vasoconstriction and extracranial vasodilation. This results in cerebral hypoxia and may be responsible for the neurologic defects that characterize the aura.

So maybe it's the vasodilation just outside the skull — vasodilation in the arteries which supply the brain — that is thought to cause migraine, along with simultaneous vasoconstriction of the blood vessels inside the skull and brain.

So if that's correct, CO2 gas which dilates brain blood vessels would well be helpful. I understand that CO2 only dilates the brain blood vessels, but not other blood vessels in the body, so CO2 would not increase the vasodilation in the arteries which supply the brain.

 

[Mary]

@Wolfcub - I wonder if this would help you when you get auras?

I'm curious about the inhaler. The article says they use CO2 and oxygen - so am wondering if the inhaler contains both CO2 and oxygen, and so in addition to causing vasodilation, which would of course increase oxygen flow, but also would increase the oxygen supply as well? @Hip , do you know if it's possible to get both CO2 and oxygen into an inhaler? Or they may just be referring to increasing oxygen flow by using CO2 for vasodilation.

 

[Wolfcub]

Oh boy @Hip ....I don't have vinegar and bicarbonate of soda right now in my kitchen but I do have carbonated water. I have one 1/2 full bottle of sparkling Highland Spring which I was about to take a drink from. Then I wondered if I could breathe CO2 from that.

So I shook it up vigorously. (This procedure isn't perfect as the whole caboodle isn't fully sealed) I took the cap off and immediately put my mouth over the bottle top, breathing in deeply.

I got that same "about to pass out "head rush" effect, that you describe in your post on the other thread above.

So the whole mini experiment was a bit Heath-Robinson and let's say needs some tweaking But it was okay for now. I do still feel a bit weird though. Need to take some deep breaths of O2 and I will be right as rain

 

[Wolfcub]

So maybe it's the vasodilation just outside the skull — vasodilation in the arteries which supply the brain — that is thought to cause migraine, along with simultaneous vasoconstriction of the blood vessels inside the skull and brain.

So if that's correct, CO2 gas which dilates brain blood vessels would well be helpful.

Oh right, I see now. Thank you.

 

[Hip]

@Hip , do you know if it's possible to get both CO2 and oxygen into an inhaler? Or they may just be referring to increasing oxygen flow by using CO2 for vasodilation.

Yes, I imagine they would place both oxygen and CO2 into the same inhaler. You want to maintain oxygen supply, but you want to add some CO2 for the cerebral vasodilation.

 

[Hip]

I got that same "about to pass out "head rush" effect, that you describe in your post on the other thread above.

OK, that's a good dose of CO2 you had! I only get that when I take a half a lungful of pure CO2 from my food bag.

I am not sure if that "about to pass out" feeling is actually necessary or desirable: sometimes I will blow some air into my food bag, to dilute the CO2 50/50 with air. When the CO2 is more diluted like that, you tend to get less of the "about to pass out" feeling when you breath it in.



One other thing CO2 does, in addition to dilating the brain blood vessels, is increase the amount of oxygen released into the tissues from the red blood cells. The more CO2 in your blood, the more readily the red blood cells release the oxygen they are carrying (this is called the Bohr effect). So possibly that might also play a role in CO2's benefit for migraine, if migraine involves brain hypoxia.

 

[Wolfcub]

OK, that's a good dose of CO2 you had! I only get that when I take a half a lungful of pure CO2 from my food bag.

I didn't even expect it, as I wasn't sure my fizzy water experiment was going to be the same thing at all. I just surmised that half the bottle would have a heck of a lot of CO2 in, so just went for it.
But yes, the head rush was immediate and unmistakable. I tried testing if it was anything to do with what I breathed from the bottle, or just caused by not getting a proper breath of air, by just holding my breath as long as possible, but that didn't cause it.
So I guess I did get half a litre of CO2 !! haha

I am now defintely set on the idea of experimenting again, maybe twice or so, when I get another migraine aura

 

[Wolfcub]

One other thing CO2 does, in addition to dilating the brain blood vessels, is increase the amount of oxygen released into the tissues from the red blood cells. The more CO2 in your blood, the more readily the red blood cells release the oxygen they are carrying (this is called the Bohr effect). So possibly that might also play a role in CO2's benefit for migraine, if migraine involves brain hypoxia.

I am interested, Hip. Thank you. I didn't know that.