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D-Lactic Acidosis in CFS

Avenger

Senior Member
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H
Also, I have not read the full thread, but besides antibiotics, how might we get Lactic Acid Bacteria under control via herbals etc?

I'm going keto now as it worked in the past. I ate 4 dates, a banana, and some root veg yesterday and it was a massive relapse today. I had 3 weeks of swinging lactic acidosis, finally had 2 days clear, and that test followed by relapse confirms for me.

I also have liver pain, pancreas pain, and possible arrhythmia (waiting ECG results, and also bloods)

Has anyone else had similar effects on the rest of their body, or are you more dealing with the fatigue first and foremost?

Hope I have not worried anyone, I'm generally pretty sensitive when things start tweaking so... we will see how it goes. I'll tidy up these posts a bit when I'm more rested and try to provde something of value.

Best wishes
Hi Michael,
I forgot, Banana is 23 grams of Carbohydrate which is contraindicated for D-Lactic acidosis.

With D-Lactic acidosis all Carbohydrates and Sugar are converted to the Neurotoxin D-Lactic acid which is a poison and so have to be excluded from your diet. It causes illness and fatigue with systemic neurological symptoms, which are caused when D-Lactate enters every cell in your body; and also enters spinal fluid.


D-La can also cause breathing problems like suffocating because of developing acidosis and high levels of PCO2 in your bloodstream during exacerbations.

It is also associated with Mitochondrial Dysfunction (including muscle weakness and pain). It will affect
Glucose and Oxygen at the cellular level.

The diet for D-Lactic acidosis is Carbohydrate and Sugar Free (you may be able to add small quantities and experiment once you have gained control of D-La). This is done by decreasing the offending Overgrowth of Bacteria in the small intestine using Antibiotics, or not allowing foods that are being converted to D-Lactic acid due to the presence of large quantities of Bacteria in the small bowel that act to cause illness much like infection or Flu like symptoms that can fluctuate from mild to extremes of illness.

I suspect that a number of people may have died from D-Lactic acidosis that has been misdiagnosed as ME (the symptoms are identical). D-Lactic acidosis also affects your heart to cause tachyarrhyrhmias (I had APC's and multifocal VPC's with heartrates between 120 and 175 with high blood pressure during exacerbations).

D-Lactic acidosis causes failure and pain in different organs including the heart. A number of patiants with ME have died from heart related problems that have gone without being connected to ME.

Naltrexone is the new wonder drug that has been found to cure some patients with ME and also MS!


Paul.
 
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Just a quick reply as it's late for me but wanted to say thanks, it's really reassuring to get a reply so soon. I actually am writing a longer reply but will leave posting it til tmrw ;)


I really would like to find out about D Lactase testing in the UK/London (while I'm still in relapse episode).


I hope to be clearing the worst again in a few days or so of no carbs/sugars. I just had to cancel a hydrogen breath test booked for Monday because there's no way I'll be putting any more sugars in this body for now!


Also any notes on herbal antimicrobials that target the right Lactic acid culprits. I did try oregano oil for a few days a couple of months ago, but I was not low/no carb and I had a pretty big relapse around that time too. Not sure what to think until I retry more rigorously with a D-La specific approach.

Speak soon
 

Avenger

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Hi Michael, what gastrointestinal symptoms do you get alongside illness?

Do you get Constipation or the opposite?

If Constipation, then try the Naltrexone at low dosage. It can stop the symptoms of D-Lactic acidosis and SIBO in some patients without any other interventions and you may be able to process Carbs again, because it speeds up motility and clears the small bowel.

In some patients this may be all that is wrong. For some reason motility is reduced in the small intestine allowing Bacterial Overgrowth and causing production of a number of adverse metabolites including D-Lactic acid although (although there are many causes of SIBO including diabetes).

I had become resistant to a number of Antibiotics before finding this drug through a friend on the same site. I did not have any side effect except for sleep difficulty if taken at night, so I take it early morning.

Abstract;
Using Low Dose Naltrexone To Help SIBO Patients
Speaker
Mona Morstein ND

SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth, is estimated to account for up to 60% of all IBS patients. That’s millions of patients. The core etiology of developing SIBO is due to auto-immune damage to the nerves that stimulate the muscles of the small gut to move contents forward. As a result, the colon backwashes bacteria/archae into the small gut and they proliferate, causing significant symptoms and damage to the small gut lining. Low Dose Naltrexone can be an invaluable tool in working with SIBO patients. It can help reduce the auto-immunity and acts as a gentle prokinetic, helping to move contents forward to prevent SIBO recurrence. Learn about SIBO, auto-immunity, prokinetics at this interesting lecture by a SIBO expert."

LDN Research Trust Registered Charity Number: 1106636
Site Design: Noovo Creative


Low dose naltrexone: side effects and efficacy in gastrointestinal disorders.
Ploesser J1, Weinstock LB, Thomas E.
Author information
1St. Louis College of Pharmacy, St. Louis, Missouri.
Abstract
Use of low dose naltrexone has been advocated for a variety of medical problems. Only a few articles published in peer review journals have documented side effects of low dose naltrexone. The purpose of this study was to determine the frequency of adverse effects of low dose naltrexone in patients who have been treated for a variety of gastrointestinal disorders. The secondary purpose was to determine global efficacy in a retrospective survey. Patients (206) form a single gastroenterologist's clinical practice who had been prescribed naltrexone were mailed a survey to evaluate the side effects and efficacy of naltrexone. Patients had either irritable bowel syndrome without evidence for small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, chronic idiopathic constipation, or inflammatory bowel disease. Patients with diarrhea were given 2.5 mg daily, constipation 2.5 mg twice daily, and inflammatory bowel disease 4.5 mg daily. In the patients who returned the survey, 47/121 (38.8%) had no side effects. Of the 74/121 (61.2%) patients who had side effects, 58 had one or more neurological complaints, and 32 had one or more gastrointestinal side effects. In the patients with side effects, 24/74 (32.4%) had short lived symptoms. Low dose naltrexone was terminated owing to side effects in 20/74 patients (27.0%). In 13 patients with idiopathic irritable bowel syndrome, 2 were markedly worse. In 85 patients with irritable bowel syndrome-small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, 15 were markedly improved, 32 were moderately worse, and 1 was markedly worse. In 12 patients with chronic constipation, 7 were markedly improved, 1 was moderately improved, 1 was mildly improved, and 4 were unchanged. Low dose naltrexone frequently has side effects but in most is tolerable. It appears to be helpful for a member of patients with gastrointestinal disorders.
PMID: 23965429
 
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Thanks Avenger, here is my somewhat unedited reply.

I've just been coming out of an episode so life admin calls as well as general cognition and motivation issues.


and also enters spinal fluid.
This is a big deal for me to hear, as part of the onset of this syndrome (as I have termed it so far) was experimenting with DLPA (which is also a neurotoxin once toxicity is reached) alongside a strong probiotic drink called Symprove.

There was also an episode induced by Theanine and Lemon Balm extract, and I have yet to really understand what happened there but Lemon Balm could alter the microbiome, and Theanine... well, I'll leave that to another thread when I summarise my history properly.

I had/have lesions in the brain and all sorts of funky neuro stuff. MS was the longstanding query but top Neuros were baffled by the "non specific" nature of my symptoms list and my constant referring back to my gut and reactions to various foods, specifically sugars. Matched oligoclonal bands were evident ("systemic inflammation") on lumbar punture. Luckily last repeats showed lesions shrinking a great deal, my diet and lifestyle definitely helped. So it is interesting that it enters spinal fluid, and I wonder if as you say about misdiagnosed ME sufferers, there may be a subset of MS patients who might fit here also.


RE: Naltrexone.

Naltrexone is the new wonder drug that has been found to cure some patients with ME and also MS!
I wish I could be optimistic about Naltrexone. However I have a bit of a drug history and another piece of my onset puzzle involved drug experimentation followed by a "precipitated withdrawal" as I was worried I might have overdosed on opiates/opioids and took some naltrexone... ended up 3 days using up an NHS bed with severe gastro symptoms alongside the withdrawal and a moderate serotonin syndrome, contemplating my mistake.

I was mostly using Kratom which is an opioid kind of related to coffee that I was using for anxiety and motivation. However I was physically addicted to it and did use opiates weekly. I also used Kratom because it gave me solid stools.

what gastrointestinal symptoms do you get alongside illness?

Do you get Constipation or the opposite?
Over the years I mostly get the opposite, and in the last 2 years with the suspected D La it has mostly been loose. However there are the episodes (mostly around microbiome change through location or fermented foods experimentation) where I am chronically constipated for days.

Gut motility is an issue, feels like rocks on the gut and to get any movement generally requires specific fermented foods and/or a lot of relaxation, meditation, and biodynamic massage. But once it clears it is not constipation as such.



The diet for D-Lactic acidosis is Carbohydrate and Sugar Free
Have definitely had success with keto, and the strictest form of the AIP diet. However I would sometimes get some strong euphoria episodes, especially when combined with coffee, the fats, and my anti oxidant/anti inflammatory regimen. There are some issues with the D La hypothesis for me around the fact that I did reduce to basically leaves, nuts and fish and quality fats for long periods, but still had gastro issues and inflammation. So there must also be a long standing IBS issue (which seems to be the case given I had IBS for 5 years and chronic anxiety and strong fatigue alongside this, before the acidosis symptoms).



Something interesting I also discovered over the last 2 years (although more specifically last Christmas), was that I could consume carbs, and some limited sugars, if I just consumed a fermented sugar/carb alongside the main food.

e.g. kombucha with sweet potato crisps, or rice. Also sauerkraut alogside cabbage. This is not precise and I'll probably have to clarify, but it's the gist of something that seems to help in certain phases.

However this mostly helped me tolerate and not have major episodes, it did not put me in remission or anything.

Some of the best periods of remission I have eaten rice, and it seems to have fermented in such a way that it clears, as opposed to offends. I can only assume the "right" kind of bacteria is getting in there before the offenders. There are other times where the rice most definitely is triggering episodes. Sadly I never did keep a proper diary.

Because I have been so relentless with things like fasting and the AIP diet, as well as microbiome changes like living on a farm/caravan site in Cornwall. I managed my condition fairly well after the first 3-6 months.

But the last few weeks have been as scary as the early days, where one is not sure if they will have to go to A & E and/or get through the night in one piece. This was all linked to strong probiotic intake that I experimented with (Rhythm kefir, I used it every morning for 5 days first thing), and having now cut sugars and briefly tested with sugars again, I can see the chain of cause and effect very clearly, alongside the symptoms.

I'll do a detailed post of my story and link it here, maybe redo my intro or something.



I have to say it's reassuring, you sound like you have and have had it really hard for all these years, but you are still fighting on. I have a lot of respect for that, and that you have found your way to some answers too.

I have been near the end of my rope in the last month or 2, and this has only really been 2 years with the acidosis symptoms.


I was already set for trying antibiotics for SIBO with the gastro in the next month or 2, but now I can see how important that will be. I cancelled the latest SIBO hydrogen breath test as I don't want to touch sugars until I am healing again.


Another interesting bit you might find useful, my best clearest remission phase was after 2 things:

- I had discovered the kombucha/starches method, so some altering of the microbiome had taken place (soft white rice, sushi rice specifically, was the safest).
- I started using both Colgate Toothpaste (with some antibacterials in it) but more importantly, Jason's mouthwash!

I've been racking my brains for months to understand why I had nearly a month of remission (with some swings of course) around that time, I tried everything. Today I (maybe) finally put the pieces together because Jason's mouthwash has multiple anti microbials in it.

Tea Tree, Clove Oil, Cinammon, and Aloe - the first 2 being the most important I think, as they are extremely strong.

I have now bought this mouthwash again and will resist the urge to swallow it. Depending on how it goes using that I will try the herbal antibiotics, and am seeing the Gastro on the 19th, so will be discussing all this with him and then trying Rifamaxin.


Have you experimented with non Lactic Acid probiotics, to see if they can outpopulate the overgrowth? I'm considering Mutaflor for one thing.


Best wishes and thanks again, I look forward to talking more
 
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PS - I will have to keep spamming a little just in case:

I'm still hoping to find somewhere in the UK/London to test for D-Lactate

I'll ask my gastro but want to get it done while I'm still feeling the symptoms, before the sugar free and any antimicrobials kick in.


Do you think it's worth testing for plasma L Lactate? I have read it is indicated in MS and I'm just curious about that, given MS was a floating diagnosis for myself for some time ;)

Cheers
 

Avenger

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Hi, MichaelM,
a lot of what you have said makes sense. Using rice and fish diet could help although rice is a Carbohydrate it is harder to ferment to dangerous metabolites in the small intestine and is included as part of a Low FODMAP diet.

I have been put back on Rice and Potatoes as part of a FODMAP diet for D-Lactic acidosis which i am still trialing (you can find a list of Low FODMAPS including Oats etc. which aid digestion and is used in IBS and many other conditions that are affected by Western foods including wheat etc.)

I would put my money on D-Lactate rather than L-Lactate which can be caused by heart failure or low oxygen levels, sepsis or shock although D-Lactic acidosis can cause heart failure, tackyarrhythms and breathing difficulty and a host of neurological symptoms that can cause shock during serious exacerbations. I was having periods just like you when i was very unwell and very scared. The symptoms can be traumatic or disappear and could fluctuate from day to day and hour to hour.

The use of antimicrobial's may well work just as well as antibiotics and there is a lot of theory that many of the Gut overgrowth's may exist in both mouth and sinus cavities affecting Gut bacteria. Whatever the cause Probiotics have greatly helped me and I had a temporary reversal using Probiotics alone.

I have been using Probiotics and Naltrexone including Multiflor (sent to me by a very generous friend on phoenix rising). They work very well together and potatoes and rice have not caused me any exacerbations for the first time! Still too early to wave the victory flags......

But I am still pretty sure that I am getting somewhere, because I became very unwell again when I developed resistance to a number of antibiotics. I have had prolonged remission just by using a variety of changing probiotics which i take now randomly (only one or two a day, but you can take more if you can afford to): Multiflor (grown in soy milk), Rhamosus, Myarisan, along with low dose Naltrexone (0.5 to 3 mg) as Prokinetic. I am taking 2mg early morning (I disolve a 25mg or 50 mg tablet in cooled, boiled water and use a syringe after shaking daily).

My only problem now is that I am running up debts paying for the Probiotics after running up debts to pay for private Doctors (although this has been worthwhile). I am just so angry at the NHS who have abandoned us. We need research into these problems and they would rather spend time trying to cover up and fight me rather than investigate a probable cause in at least a subset. From statistical data, many with ME have similar Gut symptoms, so why not start with researching symptoms that can easily be investigated in ME and could easily be the underlying cause of fatigue, pain and neurological symptoms. I intend that one day they are held accountable for what I see as human rights abuse.

I have a theory that many of us may have developed autonomic changes affecting motility that benefit different bacteria in overgrowth due to either underlying autonomic changes or the effects of Hydrogen or Methane upon the Gastrointestinal Tract causing abnormal positive or negative feedback. I believe that there are a possible number of subsets within IBS and D-Lactic acidosis which can be produced by a number of different bacteria and combinations of bacteria in overgrowth, which will be the cause of similarities and differences that we experience individually along with variations due to combinations of multiple metabolites produced. This explains that we may have a range of similarities and differences.

The question is what has caused such overgrowth in Gastrointesinal systems that have evolved to compensate and police over millions of years? I believe that modern living has introduced too many changes and that we are either unable to adapt or that a series of insults have caused this miraculous system to break down, but i also believe that it can be reversed, possibly by fecal transplant, resetting the dysbiosis if there are no other permanent underlying factors such as diabetes etc. (which in some cases can be reversed through similar changes to diet).

I think that you really do need to keep a diary if you are to succeed with defeating the Gut problems through diet, probiotics, antibiotics etc. I have found that it is also easy to introduce too many variables and not understand what is causing your problems.

But I am now able to introduce foods that had been banned for D-Lactic acidosis although I am sure that the symptoms will come back quickly if I do not continue this regime. It is sill possible that if I go back to the full range of Carbs and Sugars that I may start an exacerbation, this is still experimental, but i am making progress and hope that you will do also. I am sure that you are on the right track.

You should talk to member SamB, he is doing similar experiments.


Paul.
 
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@Avenger

I wanted to thank you for your reply. I've been meaning to write something back since I read it but I have so many questions for you and ongoing investigations to tackle.

For now I'm wondering if you could share any links you have to hand about the condition that I can forward to my doc to summarise. Happy for PM or here. I probably have the essentials down and there seem to be enough in this thread, but it's always good to have some weight when talking with medical pros. I don't want them to refute one paper and that gets in the way of progress....



quick update:


So I saw my gastroenterologist today, and he's not familiar with d-lacate specifics even in SBS patients. He's a pretty high level gastro so I guess it shows us how rare it is.

He's happy for me to send notes/papers and I'd like to get them to him asap and will look into where I can get the d-lactate test done. He's a great guy and I'm also lucky as my dad is in medicine and happened to have a role in his family's wellbeing in the past. However I can't help but feel I'm fighting an uphill battle where I'm the one who has to convince people of something or other, as a layperson and patient, which feels very inverted. I'm curious what the Professor of Neurology I saw privately will say as I would really like expert neuro input. The neuro Dr I saw on the NHS didn't really know much about lactic acidosis, least of all d-lactate.

The only place I found so far to get tested for d-lactate was as a part of a £200 package for a urine sample with Genova Diagnostics and you need a practitioner to order it.



Going to have another breath test for SIBO on the 30th, and hopefully a d-lactate test soonish. My next appt with Gastro in 5 weeks. Dreading another 5 weeks of waiting around.... tired of just managing when the light seems at the end of the tunnel. Really want to start Rifamaxin, and the gastro did say to me today "why do you need to find an answer?" (if the treatment protocol is the same as what we had planned). I wrote an 8 point email in draft on my way home... Pretty much seems like the right thing to do to check for cause here before treatment. For the greater good if anything ;) .... for science!

Have also started tentatively asking friends for stool donation leads... friends of friends... trying to guess who is a network lead to the healthiest happiest types and testing the social/cultural boundaries. Contemplating a facebook post or asking on.... Freecycle?

I'll post back more updates and my own summaries when the time is right.


should I make my own thread for all this? ;)
 
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@Avenger PS I really feel you about running up debts for health stuff, NHS issues and so on. I (try) to trade for a living and the last 2 years my decision making has been beyond terrible. So much money lost or missed I'm now back to square one.

RE NHS I spent a large part of my discussion talking with the gastro about what are reasonable expectations of the doctor patient contract. He seems to think I'm asking too much, and this is private! But he's also willing to indulge me but tells me others would not.

At the end of the day, where do Doctors get all their information (and power and status and money) from? All of the millions of patients that came before... The patient is the source. The conveyor belt approach of modern medicine doesn't feel right at all.

EDIT PPS I just found your thread with the papers links at the beginning, and I'm sure lots of other helpful stuff in there.

Cheers
 

Avenger

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@Avenger

I wanted to thank you for your reply. I've been meaning to write something back since I read it but I have so many questions for you and ongoing investigations to tackle.

For now I'm wondering if you could share any links you have to hand about the condition that I can forward to my doc to summarise. Happy for PM or here. I probably have the essentials down and there seem to be enough in this thread, but it's always good to have some weight when talking with medical pros. I don't want them to refute one paper and that gets in the way of progress....



quick update:

So I saw my gastroenterologist today, and he's not familiar with d-lacate specifics even in SBS patients. He's a pretty high level gastro so I guess it shows us how rare it is.

He's happy for me to send notes/papers and I'd like to get them to him asap and will look into where I can get the d-lactate test done. He's a great guy and I'm also lucky as my dad is in medicine and happened to have a role in his family's wellbeing in the past. However I can't help but feel I'm fighting an uphill battle where I'm the one who has to convince people of something or other, as a layperson and patient, which feels very inverted. I'm curious what the Professor of Neurology I saw privately will say as I would really like expert neuro input. The neuro Dr I saw on the NHS didn't really know much about lactic acidosis, least of all d-lactate.

The only place I found so far to get tested for d-lactate was as a part of a £200 package for a urine sample with Genova Diagnostics and you need a practitioner to order it.



Going to have another breath test for SIBO on the 30th, and hopefully a d-lactate test soonish. My next appt with Gastro in 5 weeks. Dreading another 5 weeks of waiting around.... tired of just managing when the light seems at the end of the tunnel. Really want to start Rifamaxin, and the gastro did say to me today "why do you need to find an answer?" (if the treatment protocol is the same as what we had planned). I wrote an 8 point email in draft on my way home... Pretty much seems like the right thing to do to check for cause here before treatment. For the greater good if anything ;) .... for science!

Have also started tentatively asking friends for stool donation leads... friends of friends... trying to guess who is a network lead to the healthiest happiest types and testing the social/cultural boundaries. Contemplating a facebook post or asking on.... Freecycle?

I'll post back more updates and my own summaries when the time is right.


should I make my own thread for all this? ;)
D-Lactic acidosis, Bacterial Overgrowth and Fecal Transplant;

Hi Michael,
I agree and relate to everything that you have put most capably. You describe all of the problems that we are facing in obtaining a diagnosis which is an uphill battle, but I believe that this is only due to the sheer ignorance of many Doctors and Consultants concerning Gut Bacteria!

Gut Bacteria are an unexplored continent that have only recently began to be properly mapped or have DNA taken, and it may take decades to understand this complex symbiosis and interactions of policing through the immune system, but I believe that these problems may be reset by Fecal Transplant as long as the underlying disease leading to Bacterial Overgrowth has been identified and can be controlled (in my case motility disorder). The choice of donor should be a close healthy relative, neither very young or old.

Dr. Myhill has included home Fecal Bacteriotherapy (DIY Fecal Transplant) https://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Faecal_bacteriotherapy


To properly understand Gut Bacteria (and these may be as diverse as fingerprints) we would have to compare good working models with diseased dysfunctional models and we are nowhere near to this understanding; D-Lactic acidosis is complex and highly contentious and I have been forced to find my own solutions (eg. I used antibiotics, then the Carbohydrate exclusion diet and now Naltrexone with Probiotics).

I find it difficult to accept many Doctors and Consultants who act with absolute authority, when they have no or little understanding. This is Shamanic and the poorest thinking that relies on exploitation and misrepresentation, which has led to Psychological abuse and the use of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Graded Exercise (Wessely is a prime example). I have lost 18 years to this dysfunctional thinking, because I relied and believed in what I was told, by the 'experts'. It is nothing but superstition and pretense.

You may be disappointed with the Professor of Neurology.

I saw several Consultant Neurologists. Two were world class experts who dismissed my symptoms and illness. I was told by one of them that my symptoms were classic Somatization!

Even the best trained Neurologists have not come across the adverse neurological symptoms caused by D-Lactic acidosis. Many Doctors and Consultants have no understanding whatsoever. There is a gaping hole in their training concerning Gastrointestinal Bacteria, Symbiosis, Dysbiosis, D-Lactic acidosis and many other related issues.

Somatization has been used to plug the gap in their knowledge! If as experts, they do not understand a patients symptoms, then the patient must be to blame and the symptoms merely a reflection of some deeper psychological trauma! You may come across this, but do not get disheartened.

I believe that this gap in knowledge is the reason that D-Lactic acidosis has not been considered as a possible cause of adverse neurology in a Subset ME/CFS. After all we are looking for a cause of Neurological symptoms in ME; that are caused by the neurotoxin and poison D-Lactic acid and may well be caused by other Metabolites in other forms of Overgrowth.

It is highly unlikely that I alone have D-Lactic acidosis, without short bowel syndrome, and I believe that there are many other forms of Bacterial Overgrowth that may account for variants. ME may have different species of Bacterial Overgrowth than CFS and Fibromyalgia (I was diagnosed with all three), just as there are similarities and differences in D-Lactic acidosis, and SIBO ( which may just be another word for IBS).

I may have seen 20 or 30 Consultants and was even sent to see a Psychiatrist and was expected to capitulate and accept that my symptoms were a symptom of depression, anxiety, or transferance and that all I needed was cognitive behavioral therapy and exercise.

Below is a list of symptoms given for ME/CFS by the NHS, they are also the symptoms of D-Lactic acidosis caused by Bacterial Overgrowth. They were my symptoms; Sickness was caused by Bacterial Overgrowth that acts much like any infection to cause the Flu Like symptoms due to the metabolites produced, but without any raise in temperature, because the Bacteria concerned remain in the Gut and do not enter the bloodstream en masse. But Bacteria that do cross (leaky Gut) will cause further illness due to immune reaction and dysfunction.

The main symptom of CFS/ME is feeling extremely tired and generally unwell.

In addition, people with CFS/ME may have other symptoms, including:

Most people find overexercising makes their symptoms worse.

The severity of symptoms can vary from day to day, or even within a day.

The symptoms of CFS/ME are similar to the symptoms of some other illnesses, so it's important to see a GP to get a correct diagnosis.



I had to initially diagnose myself and then pay for a private D-Lactic Gastrointerologist, which is a specialism within Gastroenterology. Whatever you do, don't lose hope, rely on and trust your instincts. I am sure that you are on the right path!

I am beginning to think that we should start a Patients Union and fight the ignorance en masse.


Paul.
 
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@Avenger

I feel you... so much to contend with here. To start with your last point, the symptoms lists become more interesting to me over time in that there is so much overlap, and we may not have so many different "conditions" we may just all have one cause in that it all begins in the gut. Correcting thyroid or liver or heart symptoms may just be a red herring in some cases.

e.g. I lately have had symptoms of liver issues. However I would go to a GP/Consultant and we would talk about the function of the liver and the physiology of the liver.

I also have neuro symptoms, so I go to the neuro and talk about that...

and so on

But if there is a causal link with d-lactate, then it covers all the system. But even before that, just gut health in general. Seems we are entering a new paradigm and soon almost everything will have some relationship to an umberella of gut health. Microbiome/holobiome whatever we call it.

What's happening with our experience of conventional medicine is typical of a paradigm shift
, it will take time and they will aggressively defend their world view because it's what they are invested in. In some ways we can't blame them, they are only human and this pattern has been repeated many times in history. Experiencing first hand an issue with the microbiome vs their training and medical experience treating patients as almost stand alone physical objects is going to create entirely different world views about how health works. Like flat earth vs round earth as an extreme example.

Thanks for the Myerhill link btw, I get it, but I never looked at phages before... So then there's this:

"Bacteriophages are among the most common and diverse entities in the biosphere.[1] Bacteriophages are ubiquitous viruses, found wherever bacteria exist. It is estimated there are more than 1031 bacteriophages on the planet, more than every other organism on Earth, including bacteria, combined"


When we are already talking about how complex the bacteria angle is and how we are just scratching the surface! Gosh. If I was a Dr right now I would be daunted or burying my head in the sand too!


I also agree with you re scepticism about the neuro. He is a world expert, but their knowledge and experience is very specific. What bothers me about the "expert" opinion and the Dr patient dynamic you describe is that the only reason medical professionals have knowledge and therefore power is because of all of the patients that came before. We are literally the source of their power, and only through mistakes in the past was knowledge obtained.
 

Avenger

Senior Member
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Hi Michael,
I believe that you are totally correct, all of the spurious and fluctuating symptoms may emanate in the Gut, through different forms of Bacterial Overgrowth (I am putting our conversations in full view as may help others understand the issues, which appear as a host of different symptoms which may have overlapping similarities and differences due to the effects of different metabolites produced).

Results of first Fecal Transplant Study below (there are now a number of different studies). The results show a probability that Gut Bacteria may be the cause of at least a subset of ME/CFS with Gastrointestinal symptoms. Cause rather than an effect of ME/CFS.

Answering your queries, Gelatin is 14% Carbohydrate.

Glycine is an amino acid with many impressive health benefits. Your body needs glycine to make important compounds, such as glutathione, creatine and collagen. This amino acid may also protect your liver from alcohol-induced damage and improve sleep quality and heart health.12 Dec 2018

You will need to experiment with diet and may find either a full Carbohydrate/Sugar exclusion diet of help, FODMAP or Dr. Myhill's Palaeo diet which have similarities and differences. But ceasing all Carbs and Sugars for a few weeks is the best way to find out if Carbs and Sugars are the cause due to Bacterial Overgrowth. It takes at least 3/4 days for symptoms to stop even on the most stringent diet and you are likely to make a lot of mistakes at first, but just lowering them substantially should produce results if you have Bacterial Overgrowth! You have already had results from excluding, but I am concerned that there are many others who are at risk if they have the more serious form caused by D-Lactic acidosis.


The First ME/CFS Fecal Transplant Study Suggests the Treatment Holds Promise (Simmaron ME/CFS Research).

Conclusion
The first stab at a fecal transplant study in ME/CFS was weak in statistics and strong in vivid detail. Dr. Kenyon’s fecal transplants – used mostly in ME/CFS plus IBS patients – used only bacterial matter and were done in bulk – ten transplants over ten days – from different donors to ensure that a wide variety of flora was transmitted.

With seven of the 21 treatment resistant patients reportedly returning to full or near normal health, and six receiving significant improvements in energy, the results were surprisingly good.

While the results were promisingly we need more rigorous studies and one, funded by Invest In ME and lead by Peter Johnsen, a Norwegian researcher is underway. Data collection from the 80 person, randomized, placebo-controlled study at the University Hospital of North Norway started in February of this year and is slated to wind up in February of next year. I couldn’t tell how many fecal transplants would be given but changes in gut microbiome, metagenome, metabolome, gut barrier integrity and immune functioning will be assessed at three time points during the year long study.

Johnsen’s 2018 (n=86) study found that fecal transplants “provided significant symptom relief for people with IBS. (In a nice bit of collaboration Maureen Hanson will be testing some of Johnsen’s samples for gut dysbiosis.)




My belief is that there are many on this site who have similar Gastrointestinal issues causing a range of different Bacterial Overgrowth's explaining differences and similarities. The most dangerous is D-Lactic Overgrowth. For me Motility must have been the main cause of Overgrowth in my small intestine allowing Overgrowth to occur.

Both Bacterial Overgrowth and D-Lactic acidosis are complex and the place to start is getting a diagnosis for the Gut issues which may include IBS or SIBO symptoms such as Constipation or Diarrhea, slow or fast motility, bloating or dyspepsia, reflux etc.

The next stage is to find the cause of Overgrowth and get motility investigations; but there are many other causes of Overgrowth including Diabetes (interestingly linked to the same Starches/Carbohydrates causing D-Lactic acidosis).

Diet can be used cutting out Carbohydrates and all Sugars for a few weeks to see if the Gut and Systemic symptoms are caused by Overgrowth. Then you will have to experiment. You will have to use a diet such as Dr. Myhill's website for low Carbs and see some of her online recommendations on Utube etc.

Recent reply to another member;

I have been diagnosed with D-Lactic acidosis after 18 years of ME.

It causes neurological systemic symptoms that are both fluctuating, intermittent and can mask as almost anything including ME/CFS, because it is a form of systemic poisoning caused through an abnormal Overgrowth of Gut Bacteria which produce the neurotoxin and poison D-Lactic acid. I had headaches, sight difficulty, kidney pain at times and frequent dizziness to confusion and breathing difficulty with intermittent weakness and hypoglycemia.

Fatigue is horrendous; do you have any Gastrointestinal symptoms, which are often overlooked as they are far less disturbing than the neurological symptoms that are produced?

If you have Gastrointestinal symptoms this may be due to Bacterial Overgrowth, which acts much like an infection, producing a number of metabolites including D-Lactate, which can vary from mild production to severe and can be life threatening, seizure, coma or death and can cause symptoms such as abnormal fatigue, dizziness and difficulty thinking to severe periods of confusion, muscle weakness and breathing difficulty due to high CO2 and levels of acidosis and D-Lactate entering spinal fluid. It can affect at the cellular level to cause mitochondrial dysfunction and can affect blood sugar and give symptoms like hypoglycemia. All of these problems affect your brain and nervous system.

Doctors have no understanding of these issues and can only gauge by performing Blood Gas and D-Lactic assays.

Paul.
 
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Thanks Paul,

I'm moving ahead with all you describe. Interestingly I found my way to the right sort of protocols for dealing with d-lactic acid/SIBO through my possible MS diagnosis.

Like you say, I was focusing on neuro issues above gastro. But I started elimination diet through the Auto Immune Paleo approach.

Had a lactulose / hydrogen breath test in Feb but I was in near remission at that time, still no idea why. However my graph showed the hydrogen rose to exactly just below the line for diagnosis of SIBO, almost touched it!

Will be doing a glucose / hydrogen breath test on Monday so that should make things clearer. Also have sent all the info to my gastro and hopefully will get the d-lactate test somewhere/somehow to get all this objective and in writing. I'm keen to add my case to the medical record if it helps others.


Also searching now for stool donors / money for Taymount clinic (thanks for study link, I had seen it but good to share).

One thing I will suggest here as I search for stool donors myself is: Why don't we set up a work group thread or google doc of sorts to find healthy happy and willing donors? Or maybe the message function on here is a route to that? (I'm in UK).

If a donor proves helpful and safe for one person, we can share the donor details with each other if they are open to it. They could potentially make some money in the process too. I'm in the UK and if I find success, I will mention to my gastro and anyone who is interested, as well as any donor I might find, that there are others out there. I also suggested to my gastro to collaborate on a paper if we get solid metrics, but I'm not holding my breath.



PS - there is this site, but they did not respond to my last email.

https://microbioma.org/en/home-eng/
 

Avenger

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I am fighting the NHS who will not allow me to have either Blood Gas or D-Lactic assays which have been ordered by my Consultant.

There has been so much dishonesty in them covering up that they gave me a Psychological diagnosis that I now believe all of this is deliberate.

We are now fighting a war on two fronts; Firstly the ignorance of Doctors and Consultants and secondly the Chief Executive who are acting to try to hide that so many patients may have been suffering similar Gastrointestinal issues for decades.

The NHS have tried to establish to the Ombudsman that the Somatization (Psychological) diagnosis made in 2001 for the symptoms of D-Lactic acidosis, and placed in my 'Significant Medical History' would not have affected my care in any way when the Somatization diagnosis with 'lack of insight' was intended as a warning the all of my symptoms were psychological in nature and did not need further investigation; which was the reason that 4 requests for Blood Gas investigations from 2002 were never investigated, because Somatization was taken as my diagnosis.

You may need to ask for a copy of your 'Significant Medical History' (the first thing seen by Doctors, A&E, Out of Hours and Ambulance Crew as an introduction and synopsis of your medical history. If this includes any beliefs that your symptoms are all psychological, no Doctor will take you seriously) your 'SMH' will show whether you are being taken seriously. The problem is that because Doctors have no training or understanding, they will diagnose anything with multiple symptoms that have no diagnosis as Somatic (symptoms emanating from your inability to deal with life issues which you are transferring as physical symptoms manufactured in your brain.

As long as you are aware, you should be more able to cope and brush off this nonsense. They have no answers so have manufactured them, and have come up with Somatization, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Graded Exercise (Professor Malcolm Hooper, from Sunderland University, who helped me get a diagnosis has written a lot about this), this is nothing more than Shamanism.


Paul.
 

ljimbo423

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Results of first Fecal Transplant Study below (there are now a number of different studies). The results show a probability that Gut Bacteria may be the cause of at least a subset of ME/CFS with Gastrointestinal symptoms. Cause rather than an effect of ME/CFS.
Hey Paul-

After 12 years of researching ME/CFS and about 18,000 hours invested. I have reached the conclusion that dysbiosis is the primary cause of ME/CFS, in the vast majority of people rather than an effect.

My belief is that there are many on this site who have similar Gastrointestinal issues causing a range of different Bacterial Overgrowth's explaining differences and similarities.
This is my belief as well. ME/CFS researcher Mady Hornig has a video out talking about how different gut microbiota (bacteria) cause different cytokine or immune system responses and metabolic responses in ME/CFS.

She talks about the many systemic effects, including ones on the brain, that dysbiosis can cause through different metabolites (hydrogen sulfide, lactic acid, short chain fatty acids, etc.), the vagus nerve, the immune system, etc.

I am doing quite well, for one reason and one reason only. I have been aggressively treating dysbiosis!!

Jim
 
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Avenger

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I forgot to say that D-Lactic acidosis can masquerade as almost anything from infection with flu like symptoms to MS due to the number of neurological symptoms which only show during exacerbation's or raised levels of D-Lactic acid, which can fluctuate and are very difficult to demonstrate.

With 3 week waiting times and lack of understanding or training it is often impossible to find anyone who will take your symptoms seriously. I had different symptoms recorded in A&E at different times but they were never seen as possibly caused due to the same underlying problem.

Symptoms are listed separately and this makes it appear as if you are a hypochondriac. I also believe that anyone is at risk fro developing these problems including children. Antibiotics alone can select for different overgeowths through resistance and decimation of other symbiotic Bacterial Colonies.

But there are also many other factors that can lead to dysbiosis, which may be a multifactorial problem in as much as it may be during a period of illness that the problem Overgrowth is able to establish.

How many people have things like Helico-Bacter (from statistics 50% of the population). This would meant that 50 % of the population may have taken things like antibiotics or acid suppressants. Acid suppressants allow Bacteria to thrive and pass through the acid gateway to the Gastrointestinal Tract during treatment periods. What other illnesses will lower the immune system temporarily? Things like Epstine-Barr, frequently reported at the start of illness as in my case also!

Add things like Diabetes; which is caused by our starch based society (D-Lactic acidosis is also due to high levels of starches, which is why Dr. Myhill's Palaeo diet may be so effective)..............

We urgently need the NHS to invesigate these Gastrointesinal issues which may be a refelection of modern living, and prescription medicine (D-Lactic based Probiotics such as VSL-3 may influence levels of Overgrowth as well as underlying disease, or simply slow or fast motility as in my case)............

Paul.
 
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Hey Paul-

After 12 years of researching ME/CFS and about 18,000 hours invested. I have reached the conclusion that dysbiosis is the primary cause of ME/CFS, in the vast majority of people rather than an effect.
and in the end we may learn in the coming years/decades it's the primary cause for many things.

My mum has depression, arthritis, some cardiac issues and now has some cognitive issues. Inflammation is clearly present. She also talks about developing anxiety when she moved to Singapore. I wonder how her microbiome changed. She lives a pretty healthy life in general, but something else is going on.

We probably inherit all this stuff, not necessarily from genes. Inheritance or "runs in the family" might be mistakenly attributed to genes because it was a hot topic and it's easy.

I also think the ideas of a healthy diet or any other therapeutic interventions are not honed to how it changes your gut yet.

e.g. we know losing sleep alters the gut. We also know losing sleep is bad for you. But those 2 things never seem to be framed together because our models are outdated. But, things are clearly evolving here, it will just take time.

also when people talk about strategies for insomnia, they put everything on mental and practical tips (meditate, do something X, do something Y, turn off lights...) But it's clear to me that the insomnia I have is entirely microbebiome linked. No practical strategy will help beyond just managing when it's really bad. Overthinking while lying awake is just a side effect in the end, but we always blame ourselves for "thinking ourselves awake"
 
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I am fighting the NHS who will not allow me to have either Blood Gas or D-Lactic assays which have been ordered by my Consultant.

There has been so much dishonesty in them covering up that they gave me a Psychological diagnosis that I now believe all of this is deliberate.

We are now fighting a war on two fronts; Firstly the ignorance of Doctors and Consultants and secondly the Chief Executive who are acting to try to hide that so many patients may have been suffering similar Gastrointestinal issues for decades.

The NHS have tried to establish to the Ombudsman that the Somatization (Psychological) diagnosis made in 2001 for the symptoms of D-Lactic acidosis, and placed in my 'Significant Medical History' would not have affected my care in any way when the Somatization diagnosis with 'lack of insight' was intended as a warning the all of my symptoms were psychological in nature and did not need further investigation; which was the reason that 4 requests for Blood Gas investigations from 2002 were never investigated, because Somatization was taken as my diagnosis.

You may need to ask for a copy of your 'Significant Medical History' (the first thing seen by Doctors, A&E, Out of Hours and Ambulance Crew as an introduction and synopsis of your medical history. If this includes any beliefs that your symptoms are all psychological, no Doctor will take you seriously) your 'SMH' will show whether you are being taken seriously. The problem is that because Doctors have no training or understanding, they will diagnose anything with multiple symptoms that have no diagnosis as Somatic (symptoms emanating from your inability to deal with life issues which you are transferring as physical symptoms manufactured in your brain.

As long as you are aware, you should be more able to cope and brush off this nonsense. They have no answers so have manufactured them, and have come up with Somatization, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Graded Exercise (Professor Malcolm Hooper, from Sunderland University, who helped me get a diagnosis has written a lot about this), this is nothing more than Shamanism.


Paul.

Reposting what I wrote in the PM:


A little bit of a negative opening here:

Yes, sadly I actually think that the NHS caused my friends mum to die in their care. She was grossly obese with many psych issues. On a lot of drugs.

She was an in patient but ready to be discharged, they gave her an antibiotic for a "suspected infection".... She suffocated. Could be allergic, but given what we are talking about, could just as well be lactic acidosis triggered by the antibiotic. She was a massive sugar addict and clearly had major gut issues from years of overeating.

The NHS will do anything to protect themselves. I don't think they took any reponsibility in my friends mum's case, and I never really pushed him on it because it was a hard time for him. NHS is under attack in many ways. It's so very far from perfect but we are also lucky. Other areas of the world are not entitled to such health care, as bad as it can be.


In the end I try to take a middle ground. Humans are humans, we are often stupid. I can't get too upset because I get hurt myself, but I really feel your pain and I have experienced similar myself. I just can't engage in the fight as such, but I will try my best to educate others and change perspective where I can, and discuss this.


In my case re SMH in some ways I am lucky because my only A&E trip got me a bed for 3 days due to mixed drugs toxicity and opiate withdrawal. They took me seriously. Gastroenteritis is on record too.

I also have MRI scans that show lesions, and they consider me an "almost MS" diagnosis case.

That said, I have a history of mental health on record, and it clearly isn't helping when I talk about acidosis or any of the nervous issues. I will look into my SMH. Most of my consultant letters are pretty clear there is at least something going on, and I've seen neuro psychiatry and while they have been ambiguous at times, they haven't put me in the shit.

To be balanced, we have to remember that interally triggered nervous disorder probably looks exactly the same on the outside as psychological trauma. I've had a hard time sharing with my family even that what I experience isn't panic... but to them they see mood issues and panic because during an episode, our bodies are in panic mode. I'm also lucky they haven't seen me slurring during an episode, or stumbling. They would think I was on drugs first due to my history.
 

ljimbo423

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and in the end we may learn in the coming years/decades it's the primary cause for many things.
I'm in complete agreement. Dysbiosis has been linked to Multiple Sclerosis, Alzheimer Disease, Diabetes, Autism and more.

I read a study done on Autism children given FMT a couple of months ago . The results were that the FMT gave the chilren with Autism a 45% reduction in Autism symptoms over 2 years.

This is a quote from one of the studies authors-

"Most of the children started the study with severe Autism. At the end of the study most of the children had either mild to moderate Autism or were below the cut-off of Autism."
So some the the children, after the FMT, no longer fit the criteria for Autism!

We probably inherit all this stuff, not necessarily from genes. Inheritance or "runs in the family" might be mistakenly attributed to genes because it was a hot topic and it's easy.
Another very good point. We "inherit" or get our foundational gut microbiome from our mothers. It's passed on to us as we move through the birth canal. If mom has dysbiosis, we will also. No genes involved.

But it's clear to me that the insomnia I have is entirely microbebiome linked.
Same here!
 

Avenger

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Dear Michael,
I am angry at the ignorance and inhumanity and absolutism of the NHS who have pretended to have expertise in ME/CFS and ended up fixing statistics to validate data that would make patients more unwell, because it is the cheapest way of dealing with a problem that they do not understand (see the pace trial statistics that have been proven to be dishonestly fixed;Professor Malcolm Hooper). So many still suffering and many have died.

I am finding it hard to rest after experiencing this for so many years, terrified by the illness and expecting to die during the worst exacerbations, when A&E Doctors looked on, telling me that I was hyperventilating due to anxiety, while I was suffocating with normal Oxygen Levels, but high levels of CO2 which had gone without detection or understanding. I cannot rest because, I know that there is a possibility of control of these symptoms which is being ignored.

How many others have to suffer before this is properly exposed?

The whole system is weighted towards psychological diagnosis of any symptoms that cannot be explained, which means if you get a poor or inexperienced Doctor or one with little imagination, you are likely to be diagnosed with Somatization.

Somatization is a dangerous diagnosis and can have long term effects. It stands as a Human Rights issue, because the parameter for Somatization is lack of diagnosis within two years after which you will attract the attention of a Psychiatrist if your Doctor pushes you in that direction.

The reason that Somatization is a Human Rights abuse and an illogical diagnosis and example of the poorest thinking, is that there are many serious illness that take over 2 years on average to diagnose: such as MS, Systemic Lupus and D-Lactic acidosis. But a diagnosis of Somatization will further delay diagnosis possibly for decades. It is inhuman. Even Psychiatrists have stated as such.

Simon Wessely's Psychology is an example of the poorest thinking and lack of insight when he stated that he could find no evidence of any relationship between hyperventilation and Chronic Faitgue Syndrome (establishing the lack of relationship between hyperventilation and CFS). Hyperventilation is a natural reaction to acidosis! high levels of D-Lactic acid.

Wikipedia; Wessely believes that CFS generally has some organic trigger, such as a virus, but that the role of psychological and social factors are more important in perpetuating the illness, otherwise known as the 'cognitive behavioural model' of CFS, and that treatments centred around these factors can be effective. He describes the cognitive behavioural model as follows: "According to the model the symptoms and disability of CFS are perpetuated predominantly by dysfunctional illness beliefs and coping behaviours. These beliefs and behaviours interact with the patient's emotional and physiological state and interpersonal situation to form self-perpetuating vicious circles of fatigue and disability... The patient is encouraged to think of the illness as 'real but reversible by his or her own efforts' rather than (as many patients do) as a fixed unalterable disease"

In an interview with the BMJ, Wessely indicated that although viruses and other infections are clearly involved in triggering the onset of CFS, he would not endlessly investigate for ineffective causes, using the analogy of a hit-and-run accident in which finding out the manufacturer or number plate of the car that hits you doesn't assist the doctor in trying to mend the injury, repeating that we are "in the business of rehabilitation".

Wessely was knighted for suppressing organisations such as the ME association in encouraging patients to think of this illness as real.

When I asked for help from the Pain Clinic, I was expected to submit to this model. This only added to the anxiety of having a serious undiagnosed illness.

You cannot rehabilitate D-Lactic acidosis or Bacterial Overgrowth, when the Overgrowth acts as an infection. They have missed the whole point and pontificated on problems well beyond their imagination. Gut Overgrowth's produce similar toxins to any infection, but remain hidden because they do not enter the blood-stream and do not generate any temperature. This may be a new and novel adaptation of Bacteria or one that we have created.

I am angry that Doctors and Psychiatrists who pledge not to harm patients, have engaged in dangerous forms of 'rehabilitation' that they must have been aware was based on falsified data, suppressing the truth at the cost of the sick and vulnerable. The Chief Executive have told me that they will not investigate Bacterial Overgrowth or D-Lactic acidosis in other ME/CFS patients, because my diagnosis was not clinically verified by D-Lactic or Blood Gas assays. My Local Pathology have refused to perform these assays and are making every excuse not to allow me to have the investigations for 3 years since I was diagnosed in 2017, even though they could save my life during a serious exacerbation and were ordered by the Consultant Gastroenterologist who diagnosed D-Lactic acidosis.

Even although I have a diagnosis and treatment, the abuse continues. They seem afraid to admit the possibility that this may be happening to other people. I am certain that this is Gut Dysbiosis and Overgrowth.

Paul.
 

Avenger

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Hi, Michael and Jimbo,
I still suffer insomnia, but I do not think that this is all about inheritance. Take a look at the reports below my message. Antibiotics may have a profound effect not only on our immune systems, but also on our brains. These are new studies and need further corroboration, but the implications are profound.

Antibiotics are also able to select for Overgrowth through some Species gaining resistance and others being decimated and Overgrowth occurring.

Coupled with the direct effects of antibiotics upon the Gut Microbiome, it is no wonder that we have ME/CFS or other forms of disease. ME/CFS may be a modern phenomenon caused not only by overuse, but a side effect of antibiotic usage. ME/CFS seems to have escalated since the 1950,s when the use antibiotics were first used en masse. The secondary effects of Bacterial Overgrowth is 'leaky gut' where metabolites produced damage the gastrointestinal lining causing foods and bacteria to cross the mucosa and will result in inflammation and immune disorders that have been linked to MS etc.

If antibiotics are to blame, you can imagine that subsequent generations since the 1950's would have increasing alterations to the Gut Microbiome passed on from mother to mother, which means that we are
de-evolving our Gut Microbiome, generation by generation, that has evolved symbiotically over hundreds of thousands of years, so in that sense it is linked to inheritance.
We appear to be wrecking the planet for ourselves both externally and internally! At our peak of civilisation we are now introducing disease.

If 50% of the population, including myself have Helico-bacter infection, it is likely that many of these will have been treated with antibiotics alone as well as many other things like Chest and Gastrointesinal infections at some point............I was given high doses of antibiotics for Helico-bacter and developed Glandular fever also just prior to falling ill with D-Lactic acidosis. I was also given Non-Steriodals for several years until I developed a bowel perforation and sepsis. Professor Gillian Belch believes that ME/CFS happens in patients who have experienced a combination of insults prior to illness.

My belief is that we have created this disease, caused by an inability of the body to adapt to modern living which includes high levels of starches that we have not adapted to, chemicals, antimicrobrobials and antibiotics. We have introduced so many new factors and drugs..... I also have an immune disorder (low IgM), that I had to diagnose for myself from my own records which showed repetition of abnormal immune findings that had gone unnoticed, but has been corroborated and diagnosed by a consultant Gastroenterologist.

Antibiotics Found to Cause Immune System Damage And Reduce Brain Cell Growth

DAVID NIELD
26 MAY 2016
Two new international studies have shed further light on some of the harmful side effects associated with antibiotics – including damage to the immune system, and memory problems caused by a lack of growth in new brain cells.

The findings serve as a reminder that while antibiotics can be powerful allies for the human body in the fight against disease, they can also do more harm than good if used in the wrong situations (one of many reasons you should always follow the advice of your doctor).

Both studies found that the way antibiotics kill off microbes in the gut can cause health issues, due to the way the delicate chemical mixes in our bodies can be thrown out of balance by the medication.

The first study, led by researchers from the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Centre in New York, involved 857 patients receiving hematopoietic stem cell transplants – a treatment typically used to tackle blood and bone marrow cancers. Antibiotics are usually given in these cases to prevent or treat infections linked to the transplants, but the researchers found that patient health varied depending on the types of antibiotics used.

They tested 12 of the most common types of antibiotics, finding that two combinations in particular – piperacillin and tazobactam, and imipenem and cilastatin – led to a higher risk of a life-threatening inflammatory condition called graft-versus-host disease (GVHD).

The hypothesis is that the 'mass exodus' these particular antibiotics caused in the patients' gut microbiomes harmed the body's immune system in some way. Similar results were observed when the researchers tried the same tests on mice.

The second study, led by a team from the Max-Delbrueck-Centre for Molecular Medicine in Germany, investigated the effects of broad-spectrum antibiotics – those that kill off many different types of microbes – on mice. They noticed a slowdown in brain cell development in the hippocampus, which is the part of the brain responsible for memory and controlling the nervous system.

These mice performed poorly on memory tests, and were also found to have fewer monocytes (white blood cells that fight off viruses) in their bodies. When the course of antibiotics was stopped, the mouse brains were able to rebound to their former state, according to the researchers.

Scientists involved in both studies have emphasised that there's more work to be done, and further tests to be run before we understand exactly what this means for the way we use these antibiotics in the future. For the time being, though, it's a good reminder that these drugs should always be carefully used – and not overused in any circumstances.

The first study is published in Science Translational Medicine, and the second appears in Cell Reports.

Paul.
 
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