Creepy posts by James Coyne to Jeanette Burmeister

[Stewart]

- Although this aggression took place a few months ago, to a lesser extent, it is continuing (not with Jeannette - but with others)

- The bully has recently made public comments that he plans on continuing this behavior.

Can you give us some evidence or examples to support these claims?

I may well have missed something, but I haven't seen or heard any new examples of Coyne abusing ME advocates since his late-night potty-mouth eruption back in February. At present it looks to me - and it seems, to others - as though Jeannette has ill-advisedly stirred the pot for no good reason. If there's evidence that Coyne has continued to verbally abuse pwME over the last six months, then obviously she had got good reason to return to the topic - but unless that evidence becomes public I think it's going to continue to appear to many of us than Jeannette needlessly poked the bear when she would have been better off using her energy elsewhere.

 

[Mrs Sowester]

I really think the scales are falling from people's eyes with regard to Coyne. But people need to make their own minds up in their own time or they feel coerced which makes them dig their heels in.
Also a good point already made is that if the community rounds on Coyne they look like they are bullying him, which will be counter productive because his supporters will be drawn to support him more.

His latest blogs re. Alem Matthees superb triumph managed to be all about 'Coyne of the Realm' and 'What's next for Coyne of the Realm' and were soooo egotistical that it was jaw dropping. Alem barely got a mention.
And yes, I have seen his self aggrandising posts on FB, he certainly isn't getting the cheerleaders that he was, despite his bragging about his many, many 'fans'.
There will always be a group that agree with him though, you can't control that. Our ME community is just like any family you get the racist granddad, creepy sexist uncle and homeopathic, crystal healing aunt!

Coyne will be the agent of his own undoing in this community, he doesn't need any help. He's already looking like a faded one hit wonder pop star doing the nostalgia circuit.

 

[Nielk]

Can you give us some evidence or examples to support these claims?

I may well have missed something, but I haven't seen or heard any new examples of Coyne abusing ME advocates since his late-night potty-mouth eruption back in February. At present it looks to me - and it seems, to others - as though Jeannette has ill-advisedly stirred the pot for no good reason. If there's evidence that Coyne has continued to verbally abuse pwME over the last six months, then obviously she had got good reason to return to the topic - but unless that evidence becomes public I think it's going to continue to appear to many of us than Jeannette needlessly poked the bear when she would have been better off using her energy elsewhere.

I will not post here what others have kept personal. If they see this thread and wish to post here, it is their choice,

This is what Edward Burmeister (Jeannette's husband) posted on Facebook about Jeannette's blog:

I want to thank all of you for your heartfelt support for Jeannette. I passed it on to Jeannette and it really means a lot to her as it does to me.

I do want to make one point. Jeannette was not fishing for support for her personal situation with her post. Her purpose was to provide food for thought for the ME community and how it deals with (1) an authority figure who is a serial abuser of sick ME patients who express critical views of ME-related government agencies and programs and (2) advocates who do not automatically fall in line with those organizations and leaders in the ME community who promote cooperation with these government agencies and who often (directly and indirectly) seek to stifle criticism of these agencies and the various programs they promote or adopt.

Jeannette felt it important to correct the much-distorted record of the entire Coyne episode and to hold up to public scrutiny the issue of ongoing support of Coyne (in some cases by respected professionals) and its chilling effect on legitimate critical dissent.

 

[lansbergen]

I will not post here what others have kept personal

Och, it is not even in the public domain.

 

[Stewart]

I will not post here what others have kept personal. If they see this thread and wish to post here, it is their choice,

This is what Edward Burmeister (Jeannette's husband) posted on Facebook about Jeannette's blog:

Nielk - Thanks for that. I'd already read Edward Burmeister's comment, and while he too accused Coyne of being a "serial abuser of sick ME" patients, neither he nor Jeannette have provided any evidence so far to back up what is obviously a very serious claim.

I don't mean this to sound like I'm having a go at you specifically, but if no-one is willing or able to provide any evidence corroborating these allegations of ongoing abusive behaviour it's a bit unfair to criticize the rest of us for not taking the situation as seriously as we might if we had the full picture. Right now for most of us this just looks like a needless continuation of the bad blood between Coyne and Jeannette, with the Burmeisters throwing around unevidenced allegations which may or may not have some substance to them.

 

[Nielk]

This is a tweet by Coyne posted a week ago.
He calls advocates - trolls. He called them "trolls" when the abusive incident started a few months ago as well.
This is in an attempt to split the community and to cause friction.

 

[Nielk]

Please note that Jeannette did not claim that she, herself, has been abused again by Coyne, just that others keep attacking as a result of Coyne's initial attack.

 

[Esther12]

I think that Coyne does have an "if you're not with me you're against me" attitude with a lot of things. I've seen him wrongly accuse non-ME/CFS people of being trolls for little more than disagreeing with him [also - an internet 'Troll' used to be someone who is playing a role purely in order to cause trouble, but now people use it as just a label for those they just don't like... we've lost a useful word!] He does seem like someone happy to dish it out himself, but then if others do the same that is outrageous.

 

[flybro]

This is a tweet by Coyne posted a week ago.
He calls advocates - trolls. He called them "trolls" when the abusive incident started a few months ago as well.
This is in an attempt to split the community and to cause friction.

link not working

 

[Nielk]

link not working

This is an image of the tweet - no link.

 

[richio76]

James Coyne is a quandary for ME patients. On the one hand he has helped to expose the scandal that is PACE and his continued advocacy has value. However, he does seem to be an egotist who on occasion behaves appallingly. I've received his DMs before, instructing me as to what I should and shouldn't be saying and doing and didn't appreciate his intervention. He's a mixed bag, although i do feel that the positives of his involvement just about outweigh the negatives. Just.

However, on the other side we have the supposedly defamed and abused advocates. Someone lists a few of them above. Now, I've never had personal contact with Jeanette and thus I can't comment on her advocacy, but I have had contact with two others named earlier in this thread and it wasn't a positive experience. Frankly, between them they could take offence in an empty room and revel in the attention that public victimhood brings. Personally I believe that spats like this should be between those directly involved and the rest of us should butt out. If one of those on both sides of this disagreement enter our sphere of existence, as Coyne and the two advocates did with me, then that is between me and them and it helps no one if I then cry 'victim ' and post on a forum trying to drum up support for my cause and sympathy for my predicament.

I also believe that someone in this thread is posting from two accounts, which is frankly weird.

PR, whilst not immune from conflict, has always been a place I come to be informed and read some sensible debates on a wide variety of aspects of ME/CFS. Stuff rarely gets personal or vindictive and the forum tends to be free from the hot air, conspiracy theorist tub thumpers on other forms of social media. I see no benefit to this thread other than to turn people against each other. It's not the place for it. I made that mistake a few months back, was rightly bollocked for it, regretted it and realised that this is not the arena to vent about personal conflicts.

This place is about informing, aiding and educating. I also think that there is no good or evil in this debate. Both sides have acted questionably on occasion. Turning this into a war can only damage our community.

Edit: I'm also not sure what the OP would have us do about Coyne? Attack him in the way he is being accused of attacking others? Aren't we then as bad as him?

 

[TiredSam]

I also believe that someone in this thread is posting from two accounts, which is frankly weird.

Send a pm to one of the moderators about your suspicions, they can easily check with the tools they have.

 

[richio76]

Send a pm to one of the moderators about your suspicions, they can easily check with the tools they have.

If they contact me I'd happily pass on my suspicions.

 

[TiredSam]

If they contact me I'd happily pass on my suspicions.

@Sushi @Kina

 

[Mrs Sowester]

I went from this discussion to make a bed up for my brother's visit tomorrow and I listened to radio4, the program was Beyond Belief and it was about the role of the clergy in the Northern Ireland troubles. Considering it was a program about belief (I'm an atheist btw) I was struck by how it resonated with the moral discussion we've been having in this thread and had more to do with conflict resolution, negotiation, reserving judgement and tolerating different opinions rather than God stuff.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07vngrh
It is surprisingly relevant and well worth a listen.

 

[flybro]

This is an image of the tweet - no link.

I don't seem to have permission to view it.
I just get

"403. That’s an error.

Your client does not have permission to get URL/6tlnbHNCnFUbwLJxaXZUOtBuZs0oiEXBfhzdGbMAo9-EvafyXHuoeLH588DNGiA_i3_I5D0e2tpbXFOGwKxBufalSilTfUDLNR7FnFZN1nHhvK9xjsICua63xQaYcstA4-KqIDICiPsZW2hWy6OZQX0vizl7NBSOcIZRBt5KguZoMLJvE2DRrhz2Xj9YV7DRksTcRNSlXxxWqS-yKLIgNyfuKGh3GFq1xL4I-7D7bVvZc5Btha-Smb0L9hqGeTuC0szEoOZcQmAJ4nWBeX8FQSKCpxvVeyOkRwOo26mkSUDe9eU8qgLY4H350NhmkrIY4oQllrgAj3Qe_QJytI8XvtXcyWOnVSDVuu7o4ssGIedwgRvLkWd7RbWEz1alEQHhyMEzEdUm9Rw3tv9yoOC8pvQZHKOWpjBK-8seKtB2fXZIggY6xWch0wYE7_aWflo1crHyDVC-7ZfSSNLSMveEYs89XaXBY6cldVO0-2szvPPk0SF5mWtO0MD2JA2xVu43Q5tUQEszRhnO-_KNZ9DxB4_12YXum2OcMxWcUS87n8sSNQ7oZBL1V5WAfV6uh3cvsJNyqXNQXg3UZxILjBrdvr7eYw6gEYnVHh0_JZrDXg-JtKNgMoFm7ohnZs-ix_QsJ0WPMfRarT_JQHDE-zMxPZ1vX5KlfPkeoYr95PTv8rzrGH6e9UGdEPIxeZkX3WCTfQ5G6VupRwZJ_w=w1050-h202-l75-ft from this server. (Client IP address: 195.147.152.226)

Forbidden That’s all we know."

odd.

 

[Nielk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775399388373999616

 

[actup]

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-jeanette-burmeister.46867/page-6#post-764970
@AndyPR, I woke up to find your surprising response to my simple impassioned plea for support for abused advocates. Whoa this feels like an argument w my daughter when she was 14 yrs old. I'm a meanie, always blame her for everything, am SO insistent and demanding and can't explain anything to her satisfaction (called debating me into a coma).

I fully understand that many folks here are very ill but those who can write multiple posts can surely write short one in support of pwme who have been abused and bullied by people like Coyne. That is the kind of support I mean. Some can do more. But if enough pwme do this the NIH, the NHS and other govt health services will take note. I believe they do track the sentiment in our community to determine what they can get away with ie. go after prominent advocates, create divisions in patient communities, delay research findings and drug approvals. They pick up on every weakness. Our real enemy is called 'greed'. Billions will be lost by governments and insurance companies if me/cfs is legitimized. They are playing by a very sophisticated handbook, one we need to understand better.

@Mrs Sowester, I think calling Jeannette's blog post a "dick move" was equating her action with Coyne's. Confronting true bullying behavior is not a 'dick move'. Ignoring the behavior does encourage it. Need to make a distinction between anonymous trolls who should be ignored and identifiable individuals or groups who we can do something about.

 

[Stewart]

This is a tweet by Coyne posted a week ago.
He calls advocates - trolls. He called them "trolls" when the abusive incident started a few months ago as well.
This is in an attempt to split the community and to cause friction.

Maybe I shouldn't take it at face value, but to me that tweet reads as nothing more than a fairly restrained (for Coyne) complaint that a handful of people are deliberately trying to wind him up.

 

[flybro]

Cheers Nielk,

The funny thing is this month, is my first time back on PR for years 4-5(i think). I left last time because threads got closed, peoples blogs 'edited' and the level of 'censorship' was stifling.

I heard PR was under new management and thought I'ld look in.

So I really hope these sort of threads are going to be allowed to remain, and run, until the poster is done with it, and all people have had their say.

It's easy for those that don't want to listen not to.

I have great respect for the named advocates, who'm some have worked on PACE for must be a decade/ish possibly more.

Not so long back we lost I think it was 7 pmwe in 5weeks, lost as in dead.

When pwme need to vent they should be allowed to. They should also feel supported, and able to express their disappointment and anger at those that caused the pain, especially supported by pwme.

We are rarely lucky enough to have advocates that don't have or care for someone with ME, but these advocates do need to pay heed to the advice from the people that have been involved in the trenches and have mountains of knowledge and experience.

I for one hope the thread stays open.